LOP's Fact or Fiction: Year End Edition for 2004
Submitted by Phantom Lord on Wednesday, December 29, 2004 at 8:48 AM EST








Greetings conversationalists all across the fruited plain it is I your personal Harvester of Sorrow Phantom Lord and I welcome you back to the biggest heat filled column in the entire IWC as its time for another edition of LOP’s Fact OR Fiction. Joining me as always is LOP’s man who calls it right down the middle the one and only Da Ref and a man who needs no introduction, but since he’s topped me for publicity this month especially with a plug from The Honky Tonk Man…The one and only Peoples Voice, Dumass.(I thought I topped him when I landed the Gail Kim interview, but he eclipsed me when Honky plugged his column)

It’s a testament to how fast time fly’s as its time for another Year End Edition of Fact or Fiction and like last year we decided to bring on a couple extra guests. Introducing first he is a fellow LOP Columnist and the author of Turnbuckle Tailgate…Please Welcome Dubzilla. And returning for her I think 5th appearance on F.O.F. she is the writer of The XY Files and my boss over at the official e-fed of NWA-TNA, the one and only Tinaali. I don’t want to gloat (but I’m formatting this column so I’m allowed to), but Bill Banks praised the entire e-feds work in his latest Bank Shot column. Plus we just announced a major show between the TNA E-Fed and LOP’s official E-fed the PWA…so yeah things are looking up for us.

In any event it’s been a good year creatively for us, but its time for what all of clicked on here for and with that its ON TO THE FIRST QUESTION!!!


The proposed ECW PPV in June has a more likely chance of happening then TNA making it to their 3rd Anniversary PPV in July

Tinaali: BOTH. I see them both happening. TNA is not, I repeat, NOT in the bad shape that everyone is painting them to be. Sure things might not be perfect but they are not going anywhere. Hell, they’re just getting started so people need to get used to seeing them around. TNA is on a major business upswing. They’ve recently acquired sponsorships and are working on expanding their marketing by having a toy line as well as a deal for selling their merchandise in mainstream markets… and that doesn’t even scratch the surface of things in the works for them right now. As for the ECW PPV, it’ll happen. Vince isn’t going to miss the opportunity to continue padding his pockets off of someone else’s hard work. After the success of the ECW DVD he is going to want to follow up with something like this. He’ll give us an ECW PPV but the real question is, will it live up to expectations? My guess would be that the ECW PPV will pale in comparison to TNA’s 3rd Anniversary show.

Da Ref: I'll say FICTION. When it comes to the ECW PPV, there are still two questions that haven't been answered. The first is whether or not Paul Heyman will be the one running it. With Heyman's inability to conform to the WWE style of doing things, it remains to be seen whether or not the McMahon’s will give him free range for what could happen. The second question is whether the show will be limited to former ECW stars under contract to WWE or if they'll try to get guys like Shane Douglas, Raven, Sabu, Sandman, and others that made a strong impact with the company. As for TNA, they're still a bit shaky but they've managed to put themselves in a better place than they were just a year ago. They've managed to do 2 three-hour PPV's that went over well with the fans. Impact is one of the highest rated shows on Fox Sports. Right now, they're basically starting over but are on a better track than they were before.

Phantom: this is FICITION. As much as I would like to see one last ECW PPV, we have to realize the chips are stacked against this from happening. 1) Princess Stephanie HATES ECW with a passion and if she has to lower her personal standards to do a “non-wwe” WWE PPV then she will damn sure make sure its only people under WWE Contracts so they know to fall into her company line. 2) Paul Heyman won’t be in charge of it. Sure the guy couldn’t be trusted with money…but he knew how to run a show. I can some how see the plot to this ECW Show having a main event unifying the ECW and RAW World Title just so Triple H can add another belt to his collection. Finally 3) No Joey Styles. Need I say anymore? It wouldn’t be an ECW show with out Joey Styles on the mic. Styles hates the WWE and the WWE hates Styles. So for all those reasons TNA’s 3rd year PPV looks a lot more promising then a token ECW PPV.

Dumass: FICTION, though I applaud TNA and FOX for moving the scheduled time of IMPACT! up an hour from 3pm to 4pm. TNA, in my opinion, won't make it to their 3rd anniversary show. It's been a rocky 2 years for the company and the fact that FOX isn't putting any stock on TNA is really driving the company down. TNA is now become the equal to ECW when it was on TNN; they both are getting ass-rammed on the basis of advertising and whatnot. Granted, I have seen some ads for TNA's PPV’s, but if you hype a big show that you're expecting people to pay for without hyping the show where people get to know your wrestler, then the big shows won't matter in the end because then all you'll have are people who are fans of the product, but not other people. TNA is doing the same mistake that ECW did; they are catering to a select number of fans and expecting them to carry the load for the company. TNA, I'd suggest you beg, plead, and suck some cock for FOX so that they will advertise you more this year. You guys have a pretty decent product, but it's worthless if no one is watching.

As for the ECW PPV.........it'll be watered down to the WWE way of doing things.

Dubzilla: Logically speaking, that would be a FACT due to the matter of the WWE
being a more stable organization than TNA, but it could also be FICTION in regards to ECW not being a Vince McMahon brainchild. In addition to that and despite the fact that TNA looks to be on the verge of either exhausting the milk from the proverbial benefactorial cash cow ala WCW or bouncing checks ala Paul Heyman alluding to ECW's downfall. Everything comes full circle and it is all just a little bit of history repeating. No wonder the rest of the world refers to us Americans as stupid. The landscape of pro wrestling isn't perfect, it's far from perfect, who knows what will happen? But my crystal ball has a crack in it and all things considered I think both have a good chance of happening. The summer is a far way down the road and expect the unexpected. The WWE could take the time used for the Bad Blood PPV and actually elicit
some real blood from the fad popularity created by its releasing of The Rise And Fall Of ECW DVD. Hell, it made lemonade out of WCW's old Great American Bash PPV in June and King Of The Ring used to a staple of that month for nearly a decade. On the flipside, I thought TNA
would struggle to make it to its second anniversary if it stayed on a weekly PPV basis and failed to secure even a meager timeslot on cable or broadcast television. All money issues aside, if Ring Of Honor can make it to its 3rd anniversary in February with less money, less advertising, less word of mouth publicity, less high profile talent solely based on the power of its VHS/DVD sales, a cult like fan base ala ECW in the 1990s in the wake of the scathing Rob Feinstein scandal of a year prior then TNA will definitely make it to anniversary number three. That is barring the ultimate Dusty finish where the girth of Rhodes exceeds any monstrosity created on the Universal Studios' soundstage.

Brock Lesnar will be back in the WWE by mid year.

Dumass: I hope not. FACT. I laugh at Brock Lesnar. Now, I did defend the guy when he was starting out because (unlike Goldberg, who I also defended at the beginning of his career) he should a real natural talent for wrestling. It worked for him. Hell, I remember when well-respected wrestling journalists were called this guy the new Vader. Yes, we all loved Brock; that is until he pulled a Ricky Williams on us and cried and went home because the WWE played too rough. Before I get the emails saying how stupid I am, let me tell you right now; I have no respect for people who don't do their job because they think they are too young or smart for it. Brock obviously wasn't has smart as he thought because the WWE isn't begging to bring him back; it's vice versa, with Brock being in the comfortable position of "on his knees, asking for more". Vince will probably bring Brock back and make a huge jackass out of him in some way; which is what he serves him right to be treated as, a giant jackass.

Dubzilla: It is has been precedent how the movers and shakers in the WWE felt about his departure following Wrestlemania XX. There's a lot of resentment and disappointment across the board. I liked Lesnar as did a lot of people and a lot of us feel the same way as the aforementioned WWE employees do about the matter. Brock is still worthy of making a profit and what else is he going to due. Work on a farm or carry logs over his shoulder? Maybe that would let him spend more time with his family. Returning to the WWE would be about is realistic as him making an NFL squad this past season. The desire to return wrestling makes one question his judgment and his commitment to his goals even more. I think he should keep on plugging with his NFL pipe dream, wait out any no compete clause he has with the WWE and jump aboard on the TNA Express. The lighter workload and less travel would appeal to Lesnar. Plus, he'd be that one star that could carry TNA into prominence. But therein lies the Catch-22 of that maneuver as if TNA gets huge, they'll do more touring the road with house shows. That would contradict the whims of Lesnar. As much as it pains me to say this, solely on the fact that he needs to fill a void in his athletic jock lifestyle, I'll go with FACT here.

Da Ref: I'll go with FICTION as far as returning by mid-year. I could see him possibly trying Japan, where they love big guys, for a while. Then, maybe getting back in the company which should happen. Near the end of his run, Lesnar was improving as an interview and you could see the development of a strong personality and not just a monster heel. That's something the company could use right about now.

Phantom: If the WWE knew what was good for them because this one damn sure is a FACT. As it is right now Antonio Inoki is pimping an appearance by Lesnar at the New Japan Tokyo Dome Show next week and he’ll just be sitting at ringside. Japan loves guys like Lesnar. A lot of people said he was the next Vader but I didn’t think he was back then. Now that I think about it, he damn well is the new Vader. For whatever reason he left the WWE to join the NFL…The WWE should get their collective heads out of their asses and stop being pissed about him wanting to do it. But then again I do think Lesnar was a moron for doing this to begin with. He could have easily bullshitted a better deal so he would work less dates…Plus there’s no way in hell I would give up $45million. But yeah, Smackdown seriously needs a big heavyweight and Lesnar can easily fill either the roll of a heel or face. I’d love to see JBL cut a “I’ve beat everyone there is to beat” promo and Lesnar come out and say he’s come back for his title belt. That would be good Smackdown Main Event for Wrestlemania just in case anyone from the WWE really thinks John Cena is ready for Prime time.

Tinaali: This is an easy one. FACT. Vince is going to make Brock sweat it out for a little bit as “punishment” for leaving the way he did. As Brock starts to sweat Vince will be in a better bargaining position so he can get Brock back for less money than before. If Brock seriously thinks Vince might not want him back he’s going to substantially lower his demands. It’s not a bad move on Vince’s part at all. Besides, we all know how much Vince loves people to grovel at his feet. My advice to Vince though—don’t sit too long because you might just piss off Brock enough for him to go looking for some Florida sunshine instead.

Bret Hart and Vince McMahon will finally make amends in lue of finally putting out a Bret Hart DVD

Da Ref: Well, I'll say FACT. Then, Bret will get upset about something and he'll write again about how he's once again been screwed. When it comes to Bret Hart, here's a guy that has just lost it. He went on such a tirade about the comments Ric Flair made about him and basically showed his ass. (What I found funny was that Flair also made a couple of comments about Raven, whose response was that at least the comments weren't from a jobber. That was the right way to respond.) So, the two of them will make up in time to maybe release a DVD on Bret but afterwards, Bret will probably have complaints about it somewhere.

Tinaali: FICTION. I’m sure Brett would like to have his DVD out there and I know fans would LOVE to have the DVD finally made but part of me is thinking Brett is above it at this point. With the new wife and his successful genie career he really doesn’t need the money and its almost as if he has slightly moved on from the business. If Brett did make amends to me it would almost be like he was accepting blood money. I don’t see him doing it. Then again, that new wife is a wild card. It’s always possible that she could nag at him and nag and nag and nag… Never underestimate the power of a miserable nagging wife. If she wanted it bad enough, he might just cave just to get the damn woman to shut up.

Dubzilla: FACT Bret Hart like any other wrestler appreciates accolades and what better an honor to bestow upon a grappler than a well produced DVD featuring a montage of the greatest achievements of the body of one's career. Vince McMahon of course is no dummy and has never seen a dollar sign he didn't like. The power of merchandising will fuel negotiations and bygones being bygones. We shall not only see a DVD, but a Bret Hart coloring book for the kids and a bobblehead dolls for the pack rat that needs to the fill their PEZ collection void.

Phantom: Of course this is a FACT. Money settles all grudges. That is a proven fact over the course of human history. There is a price to everything and I’m sure Bret and Vince and come to some agreement where both of them can shake on it and that would be the end of it. Knowing Vince it would be Bret showing up at a huge PPV for a speech and Vince gets in his face and the star they want to put over at the moment comes out and hits his finisher on Vince to set up the next Vince/Wrestler feud. But what ever…I want a 3DVD set damn it. Just put Bret/Owen vs. Rick/Scott Steiner on it and a lot of us will be happy. We can all watch the Iron Man match with HBK on plenty of other tapes.

Dumass: FACT because the thought of all the money wasted on a stupid feud is too much to count. I want a Bret Hart DVD, you want a Bret Hart DVD, we all want a Bret Hart DVD. Why? BECAUSE HE'S BRET FUCKING HART!!!! The only man who is as on par with Ric Flair in the 'wrestling god' department deserves a huge DVD set. Look, I'm all for Bret whining and crying over Montreal and everything, but I think it's time to let it go for one night and agree to disagree or something; anything to get the DVD out quicker. Vince should just apologize with his fingers crossed and let Bret say his peace and end this. It's been almost 10 years of this crap; let it fucking go, both of you, and let the fans have a collection of Bret's best.

The Chyna/XPac tape will be a hot commodity and will help both in their careers in wrestling.

Dumass: FICTION because their careers are over and never should be resurrected ever again.....I SAID EVER FUCKING AGAIN!!!!!! Chyna already has that Surreal Life show she's going to be on soon and X-Pac is too busy snorting coke and watching People's Court to get a job. If I were to kill anyone because of their worthlessness, it would be these two. I watched the damn porno and Chyna still has a fucking cock! A FUCKING COCK!!! KILL THEM ALL!!!!!

Dubzilla: FICTION I'm sorry I just spit out my gum when I read that statement. I'm sure whomever came up with that whopper couldn't keep a straight face when they delivered that doozy. When has anything outside of a Playboy pictorial of Torrie Wilson ever been beneficial to someone's wrestling career in the long run? Have you seen Missy Hyatt and Sunny lately? I'm sure the dozen or so copies of their tape(s) have become doorstops in the latrines at bus and subway terminals nationwide. Associating Chyna and X-Pac with the words 'hot commodity' is purely comical. It's all about the money; I looked around to see what they were charging for this piece of Wrestlecrapesque nostalgia. Everyone who wanted to see it, saw it at little to no cost, so why would they pay 35 dollars to watch whatever kooky perversions this duo would record themselves doing. Hell, I have trouble paying that much money to watch a SmackDown PPV.

Da Ref: Man, I was just starting to phase the thought that there was a sex tape of these two. Now, I remember about it. FICTION. For one thing, this isn't like the Pam & Tommy Lee sex tape or A Night In Paris. How many people are really interested in seeing Joanie Lauer and Sean Waltman having sex? I was creeped out when I heard that they were dating. What makes anyone think this tape will suddenly make them superstars? Waltman has been extremely hit or miss while Joanie's 15 minutes of fame are just...about...up.

Tinaali: Oh Lord… How ‘bout no? FICTION. A leaked sex tape may have made Paris into a celebrity but it just ain’t happening here. Chyna and Waltman need something a lot better than this. They certainly aren’t Pam and Tommy. I’ll admit I like my porn but this is definitely NOT something I’d be willing to see. Stern’s descriptions of it were enough to give me nightmares. I guess if their goal was staying in the public’s eyes then maybe they bought themselves another two minutes of fame but nothing more than that. The only place I can see the two of them showing up at now is “The Surreal Life.”

Phantom: Dumass must have been drinking when he threw this question at me and I must of forgotten to take my pills for thinking this was a good question to put up. Either way I’ve seen images from this video and what I’ve seen probably will have me in therapy someday. I mean medically I understand what I saw on Chyna and what its from. But that doesn’t mean I wanted to see it. Yeah this has given both Chyna and X-Pac free publicity and probably a nice little chunk of money from the pervs who actually bought the video. But come on…I don’t see the WWE jumping down their door to bring em both back. While X-Pac is doing whatever Indy dates he feels like, Chyna’s new claim to fame is she’s on The Surreal Life on VH1 next month. This is FICTION. Call me when a Lita sex tape surfaces.

With all the heat from the internet fans following him from the Kane-Lita Abortion Angle, Gene Snitsky will be a breakout star and the new monster heel in 2005.

Phantom: I know what your thinking right now. They have to be kidding. Well who are you to doubt the drawing power of BLACK JESUS. He got over on the sole fact that he caused a miscarriage and that it wasn’t his fault. There comes a time when we the all mighty Internet fans look past how good of a wrestler someone is and markout for them purely on the stupidity of the gimmick. Snitsky is one of those cases. I think what we will end up seeing is him taking the beating Kane is going to give him in Puerto Rico at New Years Revolution and he’s gonna want more. Plus many have mentioned Snitsky as a replacement for DAVE in Evolution. It would be the perfect role for him. He kills smaller people and doesn’t say much. If you think about it that’s about his entire gimmick now. He’s a roided up motherfucker and we love him and his giant pumpkin shaped head. Keep building him up and feed him a good baby face to torment and you can do no wrong. It’s an age-old gimmick and angle that can’t fail…even with the WWE doing it.

Tinaali: Well, I’ll have to admit to not keeping up with Snitsky’s road to superstardom but something tells me I’m not missing much. The last I saw of him was when he dropkicked the Lita’s fetus into the crowd. That was enough for me to tune out for a long while. WWE is losing female fans left and right over all that crap and it’s sad. I’m by no means a femi-nazi and I love looking at Diva’s like Trish and Victoria but that whole storyline was just so damn awful. It’s completely lacking in any taste let alone good taste and anyone who has ever had to deal with the emotions that follow a miscarriage (not just women but men as well) should be disgusted by it. WWE has made it very clear how they feel about their female fans. I’m sorry but enough is enough of that crap. Snitsky gimmick isn’t one that is going to last therefore I say FICTION to this. The WWE could salvage this but that would mean they’d have to drop all these babykiller shenanigans.

Dubzilla: I don't even need the first half of that statement to call this a FACT. I'm glad I don't agree with the Internet on this one. Gene Snitsky in my opinion already is a star and his stock is only rising. The guy has got heat from the internet, the guy has got heat from the marks, the guy has even got heat from Miami and that's a difficult task to achieve even with Shaq now on the roster as they are so laid back, they don't care about basketball. Snitsky is sports entertainment personified. While not being as electrifying as let's say Charlie Haas, Gene has the look, an oddball name and the characterization of a heel down pat. Maybe I'm a little bit biased due to the fact that he shares the same first name as Gene Okerlund, but this fellow is mean, he's green and he's built like a machine. Kane/Snitsky will be one of the underrated feuds of 2005 and people will be pleasantly surprised by the imminent rise of Snitsky. Did somebody order a Snitsky? Sounds like a mixed drink or a specialty pizza.

Dumass: FACT, but he won't go anywhere without the right leadership and such. This is where Evolution comes in. They lose Batista because of the falling out with Triple H (the fans want it, but the WWE won't give it to us) and they give Snitsky his job as the monster of the group. I have no problem with Snitsky, but I want him to be used correctly and productively. He can go around beating people up, but it's stupid if he has no reason to. Let's try making him into a star with Evolution and I guarantee that he'll be over with the crowd if they make him go after Batista after Wrestlemania XXI when he loses to Triple H.

Da Ref: Oh, come on! FICTION. The "heat" from this angle is more or less from the idea that this angle is still going on. I know I'm not the only one who still rolls his eyes everytime Snitsky talks about "killing Lita's baby." Breakout star? Not a chance. When Kane returns, we can all pretty much guess what's going to happen. They'll have a match. Kane will go over. Snitsky will be on Heat.

With the success of the Rise And Fall of ECW DVD and the book The Death Of WCW, the WWE should continue releasing DVD’s that are marketed to old school wrestling fans.

Da Ref: Just on the exact wording of the statement, I say FICTION because ECW is not "old school" nor did they ever claim to be. However, do I think that WWE should release titles that are geared toward the long time fan? Considering the success of not just the ECW DVD but also the recent DVD's that used footage from the NWA/WCW, ECW, AWA, and other places, I don't THINK they should release more. It's obvious that they should. Of those
listed in a recent list of the Top Ten Best Selling WWE DVD's, seven use footage from outside of the WWF/E(Five of which I own even after saying that I'd never buy WWE DVD's.) Besides, what else can they do? Rely on the PPV's? Considering the buyrates they've been pulling in, I doubt they'd be able to do much business, especially for PPV's that people got but had little positive to say about like Armageddon.

Dumass: FACT. The best thing that the WWE could do is take advantage of massive video library it has and release every single thing it can because the only way they are going to survive nowadays is because old school fans are buying anything having to do with old school wrestling. Though the The Death Of WCW book isn't licensed by the WWE, it's one of the best reads about wrestling ever and is being hailed by everyone. The ECW DVD was supposed to be a shit DVD that was going to appease the ECW marks and instead became the biggest DVD release the WWE ever had; showing that the fans want to see old wrestling.

Dubzilla: This is a no-brainer, this is a FACT. Despite the fact that the WWE tends to shy away from acknowledging the past as it tries to create a present with a constantly changing dynamic fueling sports entertainment, it realizes that it has the power of its expansive wrestling tape library. It can launch an on demand video service airing classic wrestling programming 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The fans love nostalgia, it has become a preeminent part of pop culture and the way of life of its target demographic ranging from teenagers to twenty something’s. Despite the fact that John Cena got John Cena over, the throwback garb that he wears to the ring that accompanies his image helped in the process. There is money to be made, that seems to be a common theme in most of my answers. People also love DVD’s so it is only natural that the WWE tries to capitalize on old school wrestling. Promoters know that if they can get a legend on their card, it will garner enough interest to make some money for that particular show. Hell, Ric Flair still can work and draw in his mid-50s, if guys like Terry Funk can foster the old school into today's wrestling, there is a market for old time wrestling.

Tinaali: FACT. They would be stupid not to. The McMahon’s are sitting on a goldmine with all the footage they own. If RoH can survive with all their tape sales then the WWE, even if they stopped touring, could survive quite fine releasing tapes as well. As long as the WWE treats the history with respect people will flock to buy it.

Phantom: The WWE has in their possession I think the last 40 years of televised wrestling. They are going to make a killing with WWE 24/7, but until we can get that the next best thing is DVD and because of that this is a HUGE FACT. I’d love to see a best of MSG dvd because I can remember watching the WWF House Shows from MSG on the MSG Network (They should work out a deal to bring that back…hell do a similar thing in different markets). The point is, people like to relive the good times of their lives and for a lot of us Wrestling has brought us entertainment and its fun to sit on the couch with a good drink and snacks and watching some classic matches. It’s something my father and me like to do. Its something a lot of fathers and son’s like to do. Why not cash in on it. There are so many DVD’s that can be made from the libraries they have and the libraries they could probably buy.

WWE.com has the following poll up, which as of 11:58 a.m. has some very interesting results.

Who do you LEAST want to see win the Elimination Chamber Match at New Year's Revolution?

Batista 10.60 %
Chris Benoit 9.45 %
Chris Jericho 9.33 %
Edge 12.72 %
Randy Orton 25.29 %
Triple H 32.58 %
Total Votes: 39776
It's definitely interesting to note who WWE fans DON'T want to see win the WWE Title. (Credit to PWInsider.com)
Based on this information, is this proof that the WWE does not want to listen to the opinion's of the fans when it goes against their plans

Dubzilla: Before I answer the question, I don't know if I can trust information from either WWE.com or PWInsider.com for that matter. Any poll that adds up to 99.87% instead of 100% isn't completely accurate, but that's just me being difficult. The WWE will only listen to the fans when the fans force them to change their long term booking plans by turning a heel to become a face. Wrestling is fixed this is definitely a FACT. I find it interesting that Randy Orton came in second and Jericho beat Benoit for last place in the poll. But then again, this is an Internet based poll, they'd choose Playboy Buddy Rose if he was a choice, just because he was a jobber in the 1980s. The WWE claimed to listen to the fans at Taboo Tuesday, but they even claimed in finer print on WWE.com that they had the right to manipulate the vote if necessary. The card is always subject to change, but the power players will have the ultimate decision in what happens regardless of what the fans think. If the fans were satisfied every week, would they continue to watch a predictable, complacent wrestling product? Of course not, you got to throw a wrench into the equation.

Da Ref: Well, before we make a final decision, let's at least wait until the match happens and then go from there. What I found interesting is that the poll was taken down very quickly after websites were doing stories on it. The fact that Helmsley is the one that the fans least want to see with the title shows that Pat Patterson was absolutely right about what he said before he, ahem, "retired." Randy Orton being the next one shows that they pushed him too far, too soon. The best thing they can do is take a step back with Orton, reestablish him in the upper-midcard, and maybe build for Summerslam, at the very earliest. The same almost goes for Edge. Out of everything during the Invasion angle, the way they were building him up was one of the best things they did. During 2001, it looked like they were putting effort into pushing him with
winning King of the Ring followed by becoming IC Champ a couple of months later and then feuds over the title against Christian, Test, and William Regal. They were giving a highly visible spot but not plastering him all over the place where the fans would get bored with him. Now, however, the fans just don't care all that much.

Phantom: Well I’m tempted to order New Years Revolution, so who wins the Elimination Chamber is a concern of mine and when its clear we want someone other then Triple H as champion and the poll says the two people in the proposed main event for WM 21 are 1 and 2 in who the fans don’t want as champion, I’d say that’s proof they don’t want to hear what we want to say. FACT on this…I just hope we don’t see Triple H win.

Dumass: FACT. Is there any doubt that the WWE doesn't like it when the fans want something that they don't want? I'm sure that Vince will have Randy Orton or Triple H be the champ when it's all over just to spite the fans. Of course, we, the fans, will just take it has it comes to us, so I'm not going to complain too much.

Tinaali: UNDECIDED. First off, if anyone believes that these polls matter to anyone in booking they deserve shot in the head. These polls are for something to do on the site. That’s it. Now if by some chance they do care it’s not like its that easy to just stop mid angle and change direction. People will complain if they do that too. I don’t see this poll mattering for this PPV but it might be something they keep in mind for after the PPV. Key word would be “might” there kids…

Triple H vs. Batista will be one of the main events for Wrestlemania 21.

Da Ref: Because I'm not sure what the company's plans are, what I'm going to say is that is SHOULD BE FACT. As someone who has very little positive to say about the WWE Creative team, this whole situation is something that I've been impressed with. THIS is how the company should've pushed Randy Orton if they wanted him to be the new big time player in the company. More importantly, THIS is how you build up a Wrestlemania main event. You do it slowly. You start out with a few things here and there. Keep it going. Then, you make the match happen. Will it be the main event? Who knows?

Dubzilla: In order for this to happen, Evolution would have to be disbanded or retooled without one of the aforementioned wrestlers. With this being the contingency plan for this event to transpire, I just don't see it happening. As much as they want to tease a face turn for Batista, I'm going with FICTION. When I think of Wrestlemania, I just don't picture HHH vs a bonafide muscular hoss being a main event caliber match or a match on the card at all. When Randy Orton left Evolution, it made sense. Batista leaving Evolution or HHH at that matter
wouldn't be prudent.

Phantom: You can feel it building. The fans are starting to get behind DAVE. We all want to see him snap and beat the holy fuck out of Triple H. I’m personally hoping he eliminated Triple H in the chamber before the arena in Puerto Rico will probably explode and Good Ol’ JR will probably have a heart attack after screaming BAH GAWD THE GAME HAS BEEN BATISTA BOMBED STRAIGHT TO HELL!!! If they do that then they have a money match at Wrestlemania 21. No one gives a shit about Triple H and Orton. They blew their chance with Orton by hot shotting the title onto him soon and Triple H had to squash him quickly just to say “Hey…he can’t draw as champion”. As much as it kills me to say this, Triple H is drawing as the top heel not because he’s so great but its because people want to see him lose. Batista is Hogan and Triple H is Piper and the WWE can make a lot of money in 2005 just building on Batista beating on Triple H. That’s what we all want. We want to be able to get our moneys worth.

Dumass: FACT because Evolution is due for some spring cleaning (HAHAHA IT'S FUNNY CAUSE WRESTLEMANIA IS IN THE SPRING!@~!!~!!). The fans want Batista to drop from Evolution; I sure hope everyone watching can see this. See, I think that if Batista would drop from the super group known as Evolution, then you would see the stable known as Evolution evolve into something better. The reason I'm saying Evolution a lot is because a lot of people everywhere on the Internet don't seem to know what the word 'evolution' means. You dump the old to become the new; that simple. There needs to be change in order for something to continue to work; I'd suggest it happens soon.

NWA-TNA will close it’s doors for good at some point in 2005.

Tinaali: FICTION. Meltzer be damned but TNA isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. This whole ridiculous overblown bit was caused by a greedy columnist that figured out that bad news sells. The sooner the IWC realizes that certain writers on the net abuse their “respected” status just to get site traffic the better off the IWC as a whole will be. What I find sad about the whole thing is that he acted no better than one of those garbage sites that promise nude pics of Trish Stratus and the like. Meltzer is a false idol people. Take down your internet shrines worshipping him. He is not a unique snowflake but a man that wants to sell a newsletter.

Da Ref: I see that as FICTION. As I stated before, the company is better off now than they were a year ago. Victory Point & Turning Point were well-received by the fans. Impact has done well on Fox Sports. They've gotten a deal with Toy Biz for TNA action figures. They also have a deal with Liquid Blue to make t-shirts, which look awesome. There has been talk about selling their DVD's in stores and not just on their website. Plus, they're no longer doing the weekly PPV's and they're also doing two shows per taping. That means less money is being lost. So, while they may not be making money by the truckloads, they'll definitely buy themselves another year.

Dubzilla: FICTION But if it wants to exist in 2006, it desperately needs to have a nationally televised wrestling show on broadcast and/or more than likely cable television on a weekday in primetime regardless of whether it is in direct competition with RAW or SmackDown. But that caveat would the most logical method to prevent the demise of TNA.

Dumass: FACT, but then again, I didn't think this fed would last until the end of 2004, yet here we are. Many people wonder why I have it out for TNA, ; here's why. I don't like TNA having to use PPV to get be able to pay bills. Once again, I'm paying 10$ a week to watch something I can watch for free. Does TNA have better wrestling? No, that's still reserved to the WWE. What does that say about the TNA wrestling? It says that I might care about it if they worked harder at going after a regular timeslot. They moved up from 3pm to 4pm on Fridays, so that's a start because now more people might watch it, but I'd egg FOX SPORTS to, at least, advertise the show. I've seen ads for their PPV coming up several times. You mean to tell me that they can do that, but not advertise the TV show, which will ultimately give them more money than selling out the same arena in Memphis? Why? TNA is looking towards the wrestling medium in WWE eyes. They think they can compete with WWE when they clearly can't. They need to drop the idea that they need to compete and concentrate on trying to get this TV show they have off the ground more. They need advertising and FOX SPORTS isn't giving it to them; and we've seen what happens to a federation that doesn't get advertised correctly (ie:ECW). Going on that stupid sports show with Tom Arnold and a skinny little runt with a "Wrestling Is Fake" t-shirt on isn't going to boost your ratings. Smarten up, TNA; you're drowning.

Phantom: This is FICTION. They’ve made it this fare despite everyone saying they would be dead and buried. Granted things could be much much much better creatively for them, but over all they still have the second best show next to RAW and they give you a solid show no matter what. TNA is gonna be around and this year will be the year that they either make a move or stay in the slow lane so to speak.

If ECW hadn't went under, Paul Heyman would be in direct competition (money and talent wise) with the WWE today.

Da Ref: FICTION. I respect Paul Heyman's work in the industry. He does have a solid mind for creative. He's also one of the best managers of the past twenty years. With that said, it's still impossible to not see ECW go under at some point and the reason is something that Heyman has admitted. He has big aspirations but he's also not a good businessman. When he finally got ECW a national cable deal, it was for a network that wanted them as a lead in for some of their other shows. When they started doing PPV's, he wasn't able to get the revenue from the company to invest back into the company. Basically, you'd have a guy who wasn't good with financial matters being in charge of the money. So while ECW might not have gone under at that point, they'd still be in bad shape.

Tinaali: FICTION. As much as everyone looks back at ECW with fond memories I don’t think it would still be around today and if it did manage to survive it certainly wouldn’t be in direct competition. I know there was more to ECW than hardcore but it was the hardcore stuff that it was known for. Gimmick feds can only last so long. If the company doesn’t evolve to meet the current trends then it is not going to be able to survive. Now if they could have gotten away from their hardcore image and become known for something else then maybe they would have had a shot but for the purposes of this question I am assuming that is not the case. If they would have evolved they may have had a chance at surviving but even then I still don’t see them being at the same plateau as the WWE.

Dumass: FICTION. It kills me to say it, but ECW wouldn't be as big as the WWE if they stayed alive. Everything that happened in ECW was because a lot of the wrestlers weren't getting paid (hence leaving to a different company) and/or they would have never have received another TV deal on a national level. It isn't because of the violence, but it's because wrestling in 2000 and 2001 was starting to decline in ratings and such. Granted the WWE was pulling in numbers, but the numbers weren't as high as they were in 1997 or 1998. I don't believe that ECW would have survived during the WCW/WWF merger. The key word there is 'survive'. That's all ECW did; they barely survived in 1999 till the closing. They ultimately closed their doors, but it was only a matter of time.

Phantom: I’m gonna go against the grain and say this is a FACT. I mean ECW was still selling out buildings towards the end. If you assume ECW would be running in medium sized arena’s now, they would be selling out building with the same number of people the WWE can barely draw right now. If ECW were on a network like FX, I think they would be drawing pretty solid numbers with all the Indy guys we love as their big stars. ECW has a rabid fan base and as long as whatever network they would be on promoted them they could compete. I mean Heyman’s only problem was he wrote checks that his bank couldn’t cover. As long as theirs money to cover the balance its all good and ECW would have been bigger then it was when it was shot in the head. BTW should ECW come back it would prove my theory that ECW never died and it was in a coma the whole time.

Dubzilla: I'm under the assumption that the way the question is worded, you mean if ECW had enough money to sustain its operation, it could compete with the WWE right now in 2004. Even with top Indy talent and WCW veterans on board, that's FICTION. ECW was the Ross Perot of pro wrestling in its heyday; it could hang with the big boys to a degree and garner enough attention to generate nominal interest from your average run of the mill wrestling fan, but when the chips fell, the other two stronger companies dominated the great power struggle. I hope you followed my analogy with my piss poor explanation, but can I finish, can I finish. Paul Heyman was competing with his own financial woes and even if ECW stayed afloat, we are talking about Vince McMahon, a time tested juggernaut, a battlecat in the trenches. If he doesn't have your number, he'll keep searching the Yellow Pages until he finds it.

If WCW were sold to Fucient Media in the spring of 2001 and Russo was given the reigns with the right level of management above him would WCW have ever over come raw in the ratings.

Dubzilla: If Vince Russo wasn't in an onscreen role, had a booking committee to tell him when 12 of his 13 ideas sucked and WCW had management that understood the logistics of the wrestling business, I think WCW would have given RAW a run for its money on Monday nights. In effect, this would fuel RAW to become a better show by default, but this is FICTION. Would Fucient Media be patient with Vince Russo and some of his hair brained schemes? Would Russo have found Jesus again? A lot of what ifs come up when I thought about this question. Too many ifs spoil my brew and I still ain't buying what I was drinking.

Dumass: FACT. WCW was the underdog story that all wrestling federations aspire to. ECW aspired to it first, but WCW made it work and had it bring in a lot of money in the process. What makes WCW so interesting is the fact that it was supposed to be a federation that was just supposed to play against Vince McMahon and his WWF; that's all Ted Turner wanted. The fact that it lasted for years, despite all the crap that it put out, and generated a profit and beat the WWF for a year and a half; that's a miracle. If the WCW was still around and everything was working correctly, then it would beaten Raw in the ratings and continued the Monday Night War. They probably would have a little harder of a time in getting somewhere since Ted didn't want to give it the TV time needed, but I'm sure that WCW would still be a major player in the ratings wars that were going on.

Da Ref: It seems like this one keeps getting a new way of wording. FICTION. First of all, it wouldn't have happened because the deal with Fusient involved Eric Bischoff, who would've made Russo one of if not THE first casualty of the deal. Secondly, it's still Vince Russo. Yes, he played a role in the success of the WWF in the late 90's. However, he's been living off of that success since then. If the deal with Fusient went through, WCW would need to focus more on being the alternative to the WWF. That meant they needed to focus on the wrestling, which was what the company was slowly turning to near the end and doing a good job at. Considering some of the stuff he did with NWA-TNA in the beginning, it doesn't look like he's
changed. I just have one thing to point out. He wrote a skit with a midget masturbating in a trashcan.

Phantom: This is a FACT. Even with out Russo in control of the creative side, just as long as there was a chain of command and someone to say YES and NO on things WCW would still be around today. Would they have overcome the WWE in the ratings? Yes they would have. There were points in 2002, 2003, and 2004 where if WCW were around they could of easily had a long run on top of the WWE ratings wise. Competition is a fun thing and I think had WCW been sold to a company who put the right people in charge they would have been able to do it. Russo gets a lot of flack for the bad skits, but he still came up with plenty of good. 2004 was a horrible year for TNA angle wise because The Jarrett’s decided they didn’t need Vince Russo to contribute and it was their loss for doing so. One thing is for sure, WCW with the right management team would of never banked a ppv on a verbal agreement with a paranoid guy like Savage.

Who of the following (if any) do you believe will be signed by the WWE and will be on either RAW or Smackdown by the end of 2005 (explain why for your choice).
Samoa Joe
C.M. Punk
A.J. Styles
Abyss
Sonjay Dutt
Low Ki
Someone Not Listed Above

Dubzilla:
Samoa Joe - Depends on if you buy into his loyalty to Ring Of Honor. The man's title reign rivals that of RVD's ECW TV Title reign, but more impressive. What HHH wanted to do with the World Heavyweight Title, this man has accomplished. NO

C.M. Punk - His straight edge gimmick would be good for an anti-drug campaign, but you know if he signed with the WWE, he'd become a New Age Headbanger. He was either misused in TNA or he's well booked in ROH. He has it too well there and another year there wouldn't hurt his stock. NO

A.J. Styles - He has done everything that could be done in NWA-TNA. He's a well paid Indy wrestler who turned down a WWE developmental contract. Was that a posturing move for his future endeavors or is does he believe in the indies? He knows he would be nothing more than a Cruiserweight on SmackDown. But even his lordly Christian beliefs couldn't turn down a chance to tithe ten percent of big time guaranteed money. YES

Abyss - There's a reason he wears that denim shirt, he needs to get in shape if he'd ever get a look from the WWE. Too much of a redneck version of Kane with the mask. He must be one ugly hombre, but I'd never say that to his face. He can put on a good match. NO

Low Ki - No size, no charisma, stone faced. NO

Someone Not Listed Above - Monty Brown, Frankie Kazarian, Chris Sabin, John Walters, Alex Shelley

Da Ref: You can eliminate Styles, Punk, Low Ki and Dutt automatically because they're cruiserweights, which doesn't get much on Smackdown. As for Abyss and Samoa Joe, I could see Abyss possibly getting signed. However, getting on RAW or Smackdown? I really don't see anyone not under a contract (WWE or Developmental) being on RAW or Smackdown and making a real impact. The company is still trying to deal with the talent they have now. What good would bringing in new people and trying to start over do?


Phantom: I think it’s gonna be Samoa Joe. He just lost the ROH title after holding it for almost 2 years. He’s with out of a doubt one of the biggest draws on the Indies and he has a style that would draw and work wonders for Smackdown. Who wouldn’t want to see Joe vs. Kurt Angle or Joe vs. Eddie. As for the others, if TNA were smart they would make amends to C.M. Punk and ROH. Styles isn’t going anywhere, Abyss hopefully will be given a main event push soon, Low Ki is making to much money in Japan to give it up for the WWE. That’s why I think its going to be Samoa Joe to get the shot in the WWE. Lets just hope if they do they don’t saddle him with a Samoan gimmick.

Dumass: I just think that A.J. Styles is going to be one of those really big stars that the WWE will have to pick up. They tried before, but AJ saw through the bullshit and said he could better money in the Indies; which is probably true since the WWE is notorious for low end starter contracts. I'm pretty sure, by the end of 2005, AJ will be looked at again and, by the that time the WWE product will better supported and more interesting than it is now, and I'm sure AJ will agree to their offer, which will hopefully be more. There are a lot of wrestlers out there that need to be shown on national TV and AJ will be the first to really go out and show off this amazing thing called "workrate" that seems to be eluding most of the wrestlers in the WWE right now.

Finally, who will be the breakout star of 2005 to take it to the next level for his perspective company.

Dubzilla: Daniel Puder, just kidding, I had you for a second there. Austin Aries in ROH, Monty Brown in TNA and Gene Snitsky in the WWE. It's hard to gauge who's gonna have a big year. I always used to buy the PWI Year End Issues where they would project who's gonna be a star in the upcoming year and check back at the end of that year and see if they were right or wrong. It's probably someone that no one reading this has never heard of or seen wrestle. Like when The Big Show broke onto the scene in WCW as The Giant or Brock Lesnar's rise to prominence in the WWE more recently. You never know who's the next big star.

Da Ref: The only guy that I see taking the next step in 2005 is BATISTA. Over a year ago, I made comments that he was just a muscle-bound oaf. Yet, over the past few months, he looks a lot better in the ring. He's got that explosiveness in what he does. Plus, his promos have been better than a lot of the other guys on RAW. The possible face turn will just be the final step towards being the next big star.

Dumass: For TNA, it's going to be Monty Brown. This is the only guy who has completely shocked me into watching IMPACT! on Fridays. I love this guy. His intensity and fearsome attitude in the ring is what I remember seeing when Rhyno was in ECW, spelled with an 'i', and destroying everything in his sight. I really hoping that someone takes a look at this guy and pushes him to a hunt for the title because, with his ability in the ring and on the mic, he might be able to make me care about TNA wrestling.

For the WWE, I'm going to have to pick Chris Jericho. I think he's going to be involved a lot more in the title hunt and maybe be transferred to Smackdown to help things over on Thursday nights. I also think that he maybe be used a lot more carefully, and I'm predicting that he will hold one of the World Titles by the end of 2005.

Tinaali: I think that Monty Brown is the easy choice for TNA. Since his return this past spring he has worked hard at developing his character and improving his ring and mic skills. It shows too. If you look back at old tapes it’s amazing how far he’s come. He naturally has what most consider that “superstar” look. He’s over with the live crowd and is someone a casual fan could potentially be hooked into even though he is a TNA-bred wrestler. Most importantly he wants it and wants it bad. You can see it in his intensity whether he’s in the ring or on the mic. He wants to impress you and is just waiting for his chance to shine. Book this guy right and the sky is the limit.

Phantom: I have to go with Monty Brown in TNA. At first I hated his whole gimmick, but after a while it grew on me and now I love the POOOOOOOOOOOOOUNCE and its great whenever he hits it out of nowhere. TNA needs a guy they built up from scratch to take the title and run with it, it’s clear they will be doing that with him and Monty can be a lot like Taz in ECW. It’s going to be about who can beat him and they have a lot of people to have feuds with him over that. Hell they could even do the same thing ECW did where people from other companies would want to come in to face Taz to put him in his place for dropping people on their heads. Do it with Monty where people want to come in because they say they can take the Pounce. The ball is in TNA’s court now its time to see if they can score with it.


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