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Submitted by Phantom Lord on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 at 7:36 PM EST
 THE STRO JBL will unfairly be looked as one of the worst WWE Champions of all time Stro: What makes a great champion is not necessarily how he wins a championship, but how he carries it. Despite the controversial means of winning the WWE title, John Bradshaw Layfield is still a fairly new champion. Now the ball is in his court as being the flagship of Smackdown! Bradshaw now has some big shoes to fill as Eddie Guerrero is a fantastic competitor that can have a great match with anyone on the roster. Successfully defending the title against RVD, Undertaker, Booker T, Cena, Guerrero, etc. would greatly help his status. Phantom: I think he will be. I mean character wise he’s the perfect heel champion. But when it comes down to it people will look past the most important thing which is the work he does inside the ring and in promo’s and they will focus on his constant bashing of the IWC, being a locker room bully, giving a nazi salute, and of course being part of the Good Ol’ Boy network inside the WWE where those who are loyal get title shots (Which is why Billy Gunn and Hardcore Holly think they deserve a huge push). So yeah FACT on this one. JBL could bring in a record buyrate for Summerslam and it still wouldn’t matter because of all the above mentioned items. Buzzsaw: Bradshaw is my come back of the year. For years WWE has tried to push him and failed they did, every single time.But finally they have found a spot for him and he is now our Champion. Will he go down as one of the worst? only in the IWC eys,other than that I think the average fan will give him a chance and I think if he is allowed to hol the belt till Survivor Series. He could have a pretty decent fued with a couple of SD!'s top talent. Fiction Da Ref: FICTION. When it comes to Layfield, he's been given good reviews for his two big singles matches. The problem is that they were against Eddy Guerrero, who can have good matches with just about anyone. He's not proven to be someone that can run with the ball. As a matter of fact, he's NOT someone that can run with the ball. Remember his last singles run? No really, do you? Dumass: FICTION. I can't speak for everyone, but for me, JBL will be one of the worst champions of all time just because of his anger towards the small percentage of the internet fans. See, word-to-mouth has become a phenomena lately. I've seen people go from loving the WWE to completely hating because of the actions that are taking place. Yes, you would be surprised to know that, even though the internet fanbase is small, it's also the rumor mill and we all know that anything will go wrong if the rumor mill is gabbing about something they don't like. Personally, I think he'll be a bad champion because of the fact I don't like him one bit, personally or professionally. It doesn't take a lot to impress me in wrestling, and so far, he hasn't taken the time to try and impress me. This whole JBL Vs The IWC thing is getting really annoying simply because it's been played out so much that I can't read a single newssite without 'JBL SUX' all over it. I could care less if he hates the IWC. I hate the IWC; it's not a big fucking deal! Personally, I think that Vince is egging Bradshaw to hate those thing about IWC because of the fact that he has the same mentality has Bradshaw in "Any heat is good heat"; unfortunately, that not true. Want proof that's not true? Ask Katie Vick. Randy Orton has slowly begun his rise to success, some have said he did not gain enough heat after his feud with Mic Foley. To truly get over with the fans Randy Orton must be put over by both Triple H and The Rock to fully be taken serious as a contender. Phantom: I think this is with out a doubt a FACT. Orton will be the next great heel to carry RAW in a couple of years. If they want to cement that status they need to have The Rock come back around the Royal Rumble and build towards a match with him and Orton at Wrestlemania 21. Now I’m not talking like something in midcard…it has to be a headline match for it to work. But I would assume sometime before any of that happens, Orton and Evolution will turn on Triple H and the end result of that feud will have to be Orton beating Triple H in a bloody battle by himself. So yeah they need to do all of that because if they don’t, Orton will join a long list of guys who were great but never reached the next level because people that should of put them over didn’t. Buzzsaw: As of right now. Rock putting over Orton would have very little meaning. Triple H is the one who needs to put him over and he needs to do it before mania! This is the one big win that Orton needs, He needs Triple H to put him over and it should all culminate at the RUmble. The same PPV that Triple H was put over big in. So Fiction on the ROCK and Fact for Triple H. Da Ref: Absolute FICTION and the question offers proof of that. When the Rock was making his move to the top, the #1 guy in the company was Steve Austin. Yet, when did Austin put him over? At Wrestlemania 19, when he was already EXTREMELY over. So, while it would be beneficial if someone at the upper echelon put Orton over, it isn't completely necessary. If Orton is truly someone that can play a big role in the company, the fans won't care. Stro: Randy Orton's rise to fame is a slow and steady one. But through this path, he has progressed and is still getting better with every match. To slowly develop a wrestler into a major player has always been the best philosophy to gain that much needed experience. This way, when he does finally step in the ring with a Rock or a Triple H in a big profile match, it will mean more and the fans will have more appreciation for him. His time is coming soon. Dumass:  FACT. The WWE targeting e-fed’s for copyright infringements shows the lack of respect they have for the last dedicated core of fans that they have. Dumass: FICTION. If the WWE is planning on releasing their own type of E-Fed thing, then let them. I haven't seen an e-fed that uses actual WWE wrestlers, but, if there are, then those feds should be closed since it balances on the copyright issue. I have no problem with e-feds making up their own wrestlers and such. LOP does that in their message board (and it's damn good too) as do countless others; so, as long as they sites follow the guideline of not using WWE trademarked wrestling names, then go ahead and start your e-fed. Da Ref: That's FICTION but not for what you think. Let me just say that I never heard about this and I just find it hard to believe this is an actual event. If it is true, it's just so petty of the company. I know about e-feds. Very few, if any, make money or get any advertisement outside of chatrooms. Who cares if 7 guys are using things from RAW and/or Smackdown on THEIR cards? WWE deciding that this is a major problem for them is like GW saying that same-sex marriage is the biggest issue facing the US. Stro: In this situation, sounds like more of protecting the copyright laws to their registered names that they own rather than disliking e-fed’s and disrespecting their fans. Phantom: I’m a bit sensitive to this issue since I put a lot of time and energy into writing the shows for LOP’s official E-Fed…The PWA. Now I have a good understanding of the law. The basic thing the WWE allegedly is doing is going after e-fed’s that use their characters and trademarked licenses for the website’s and so forth. But it isn’t piracy if your not making money off it. That’s how it’s always been and how it always will be. I think when it comes down to it, Vince and his over inflated corporate ego likes to have a stranglehold on as much of the media as he can. Now supposedly the WWE wants to start their own E-fed of sorts…of course you would have to pay to join that one. So what sense would it make having one you have to pay for when there are thousands of little ones that you can join for free? It’s technically FICTION…but only by a very slim margin. But as I’ve said the WWE can put their shows up against any of mine and I’ll always out write them. Considering how the recent batch of stars to come from OVW have not panned out, OVW is not the talent filled development camp it used to be Buzzsaw: FICTION FICTION FICTION!!! Randy Orton is no where near the best thing to ever come out of OVW, but he is the one recieving the most exposure!!!! And that ladies and gents is what it is all about, Lack of exposure. If Brock Lesnar was not fed Hogan,UT,ROck,and many others and given Heyman as a mouth piece. would he have been as popular as was? I think OVW has alot to offer when it comes to future stars of wrestling. But it is up to WWE and "Creative" To learn how to push them slowly. Phantom: This is FICTION. OVW will always produce great talent simply because one of the greatest minds in all of wrestling in Mr. James E. Cornette is the head master so to speak. The problem with the talent that comes up from OVW is the WWE has no clue how to use them so they give them stupid gimmicks or tell them you have to wrestle this way. I think Mordecai would have been huge for Smackdown had they allowed him to use the full potential of his gimmick. The son of the father…having someone who’s supposed to be an evil Christ job to a Crusierweight is not how you get someone over. He should of at least beaten Hardcore Holly to a bloody pulp for his sins. Stro: Well not every piece of new talent can hit a home run and be a John Cena, Rock, Brock Lesnar, Steve Austin, etc. Either some people "hate it" in them or they don't. Operating a school myself, I have had some students who are naturals and progress nicely while others struggle. To even have the few stars in the WWE like they have says a lot about OVW. Dumass: FACT, but I'm biased since I believe that the APW Boot Camp is the best place in the US to be trained at. If there is any reason why they haven't been successful, it's because the entertainment level of pro wrestling as been destroyed by the shock value that the WWE has been trying to ram down our necks. The wrestling is par to pretty good, but the entertainment is lacking so much that no one wants to continue watching. All this proves is that the entertainment is supposed to be as good as the wrestling. Da Ref: FICTION. It's not that OVW isn't filled with the talent it had a couple of years ago. It's a case of WWE brings these guys up way too early. Remember, OVW is a "developmental territory." That means WWE sends guys they see potential in to get seasoning or.....develop their skills. Some guys are able to develop into good workers like Randy Orton, Nick Dinsmore, and others. Meanwhile, other guys need more time. However, WWE doesn't seem to get that. So when they bring up guys like Mordecai and Luther Reigns for in-ring roles, it makes OVW look bad. Chavo Guerrero should be taken out of the Cruiserweight division and put into the hunt for the US Title Stro: Chavo Guerrero pound for pound has always been a solid competitor. My tryout match with WCW was with Chavo Guerrero and it was definitely one of my best. Just like Eddie, Chavo has all the tools to perform for heavyweight gold of any kind. Buzzsaw: Fact. I think this man has so much talent and he has run his course with the Mysterio fueds. It is time to take him out of the division and give his spot to Yang or Noble. Guerrero would be a fresh face in that division and I think a Chavo/Cena fued could be very very good. Phantom: I think with out a doubt that Chavo Guerrero would make a solid United States Champion. It would be a perfect way to restart the Eddie/Chavo feud just by having Chavo gloating that he has gold and Uncle Eddie doesn’t. Of course none of this matters if they’re just gonna give the title back to The Great White Hype…John Cena. But yeah FACT on this one. Da Ref: If it's a serious long term feud, I gotta say FICTION. The company looked to be doing something with Chavo Jr. when they put the Cruiserweight Title around his waist. From there, they created the angle with Chavo Sr. and gave him a little more time. Then, they shot it all down with two moments. The first was Jacqueline. The bookers thought it would be a good idea to have her go over clean for the Cruiserweight Title but, when it came to the rematch, they had Chavo Jr. go over with interference to get the belt back. Then, it was putting the belt on 55 year old Chavo Sr. Ever since, Chavo Jr. is just hovering around. Putting him in the US Title picture just out of the blue wouldn't make sense. Dumass: FACT. There really anything else to say about this from my stance since Chavo is outdated by about 3 years in my opinion. The WWE Taints the legacy of their Hall of Famer’s by having them get humiliated to younger un-established stars like in the case of Sgt. Slaughter on RAW two weeks ago. Phantom: As much as I think it’s a treat to see any old wrestler still go at it, I think this is most defiantly a FACT. Sgt. Slaughter is one of those guys who will always get a huge pop from the crowd and no matter what people will want to see him wrestle. But when you have him come out un-announced and lose in a throw away match all it does is taint his legacy. I mean this guy was doing Hardcore matches before there even was a Hardcore match. To have him come out and put someone over for no real purpose does nothing for him or the person he is facing. Dumass: FACT, but no one cares about the Sarge anymore, so who cares? I think that spit on Harley Race by Randy Orton awhile back was a bit too far, but other than that, it's not that big of a deal anymore. None of the watchers know who Sgt. Slaughter is anyway, so they look at it as a nothing segment. Da Ref: It's FICTION in that they taint their legacies by having them get humiliated like that. Their legacies are tainted when they don't allow them to get some of their heat back. I don't think Slaughter on RAW is the right example. Let's go with another example. Before Bad Blood, they did the angle where Randy Orton spat in Harley Race's face. What did Harley do? Nothing. That's tainting a legacy. A man that has been in the business for over 30 years and he allows some punk kid to spit in his face? They could've had Race be in Shelton Benjamin's corner during the IC Title match at Bad Blood and, at some point, he could've done something to Orton. Buzzsaw: Most of the Hall of Famers never put anyone over anyway, therefore if it helps put over new talent then so be it. FICTION Stro: For any wrestler, stepping into the ring with a legend like Sgt. Slaughter is a gift. Slaughter did just that with Grenier and Conway. Let's not forget that Grenier and Conway are the RAW tag team champions. I happen to catch the match myself and thought it went fine. Slaughter actually has slimmed down and looks to be in good shape. TNA apparently losing their deal with DirecTV will turn out to be a huge blow for them trying to secure a Prime time deal with a major cable network Stro: They still have FOX from what I understand. So a lot will depend on how their relationship with FOX carries out as to what direction they will go in the next few months. if they get the opportunity to strike a deal with PPV again, cutting down the number of PPV's to let their FOX programming build up to would be wise. It would make the PPV's mean more. Phantom: I’m going to say FICTION here. The fact that Impact is drawing huge numbers for FSN says they will eventually get a better time slot. Now being on Directv would help them since that’s a huge market to have, but it wont hurt their quest for a prime time deal. Buzzsaw: Fact. Im not a TNA fan so I don't make it a point to watch there programs. But losing a deal with a huge company like Direct TV is a huge hit for them. Da Ref: I'll say FICTION only because we don't know how long they'll be off DirectTV. They may have completely lost the deal. Then again, the report is just that they're not listed for the month of July. After that, who knows? Dumass: FICTION. TNA has more of a problem trying to advertise their Friday show more than the whore plug they do for the Wednesday PPV. Retro: There has never been a huge draw in any Canadian Wrestler and there never will be Da Ref: I'm gonna split on this one. I'll say it's a FACT that there has never been a Canadian wrestler who can be considered a huge draw. There have been a lot of Canadian wrestlers that have their following like Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, Owen Hart, Chris Jericho, Steve Corino(He's from Winnipeg like Jericho), and such. However, that following hasn't translated into serious ticket sales. As a matter of fact, it wasn't until Bret Hart left the WWF that their business went through the roof. As far as never being a huge Canadian draw, I'll go with FICTION. It's possible down the line. Will it be someone from the current generation? Will it be someone just beginning their training? Maybe. However, I'm not going to say that it'll never happen. Stro: Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, and Chris Jericho headlined some Wrestlemania’s. Buzzsaw: Bret Hart has probally been the biggest Canadian Draw ever and I would say he ranks as # 8 on my all time best Draw list.But other then him who has there been? Canadians are great wrestlers but there entertainment skills are very poor. I can't predict the future so the easy answer is Fiction. Dumass: FACT at least in the US, there hasn't. The most successful was probably Bret Hart, but the guy was loved all over the world, so I give him credit for that. If there was a reason for this is because the Canadians and the rest of the world is in it for the wrestling and we're in it for the entertainment. It makes sense. That or Vince Russo was right in saying that import wrestlers were useless. "I mean, I like them and all, but I'm American; I want to watch American wrestlers wrestle, not some Japanese or Mexican’s." - Vince Russo (paraphrased) Phantom: I’ll say this is a FACT for the time being. While guys like Bret and Benoit are great…they never have pulled in huge money by themselves. But I think someone like Teddy Hart will be a huge draw someday simply because it will be the Roddy Piper effect of people paying to see him get his ass kicked. Retro: At the height of his WWF career, "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan should have won a title of some sort. Dumass: FICTION. I was a big fan of Duggan (I was 5 at the time) when he was around, but I always looked at him as a more of just a guy who would just wrestle then go home. I couldn't think of him as a champion until I saw it happen in WCW with the US Title; beating Steve Austin in about 37 seconds I believe. I remember also that Duggan went after the I.C. title when he came back to the WWF against Shawn Micheals; so it's not like he hasn't had the chance. What I'm afraid of is what if was a World Champion? Would he sell it like he did with the US title on Ebay? These are things that keep me up at night. Da Ref: I gotta say FICTION. During his run in the WWF, he wasn't the type of guy that McMahon really put out there in the big matches. He was barely a mid-carder and lived more off of a gimmick than anything. Stro: "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan very well could have worn the gold in the WWE. His strength and popularity at one time there was right next door to Hulk Hogan's . Phantom: I think he should of at least been an Intercontinental champion. Technically the King of the WWF was a title since he won and then ultimately lost it, but he would have made a solid I.C. champion especially during his feud with Yokozuna. I think he could of easily been a World title contender…more so then Lex Luger. Even though in WCW he got the title due to Hogan being his friend, he did make a solid United States Heavyweight Champion. He and Vader had a good feud over the belt leading up to Starrcade 94. So yeah this is a FACT. The irony is if he came back to the WWE now, they would hand him a token Tag title reign. Buzzsaw: There are a long line of popular superstars that should have been given a title shot. Jake Roberts,Ted Dibiase,Razor Ramon. Just to name a few. But Jim Duggan was not one of them! the only thing he had going for him was standing behind the Red White and Blue, It was his way of getting cheap pops. Duggan IMO, was great at nothing. And Im glad he never recieved the world title. Special Bonus Question: Name five of your favorite finishing moves that you love see being used Dumass: 1) The Sharpshooter - Whether it's one of the Hart brothers or Chris Benoit, I love this move. The idea of creating a pseudo-Figure Four just seems so cool. Bret was able to make anyone tap with it and it's become a really good weardown move for Benoit and it's perfect for the damage it does to the lower back for the Crossface is terrific. It isn't flashy or anything, but it's just a simple twister submission. 2) The Death Valley Driver - First time I saw this move, I cringed in my seat. It's a simple smash to the head, but it looks so much more powerful and wicked than that. Takes strength to hold the person up that long, and the more stronger the person, the harder the end result will be. 3) The Gonzo Bomb - Even though it's only been used once or twice ever, this move is so lethal that you feel your neck has been broken along with the guy receiving it. Made popular by the classic Kawada/Misawa match, it's been one of the most talked about and one of the most deadliest moves ever made. Worse thing is, I think it was made because Kawada botched a Butterfly Piledriver, but the end result was the icing on an already classic match. 4) The Hogan Legdrop - Yes, I still mark for it. I watch old tapes and I see it and I think to myself 'How can you botch a legdrop that badly'; but I'm usually too busy marking out to a 20+ year old move to really question it. It's still one of the few moves that can rise the crowds to it's feet just to see it done. 5) The Evenflow DDT (or any type of DDT) - I'm biased towards the Evenflow DDT because this was my finisher when I was wrestling years ago. I just love a good DDT, hit perfectly and precisely. Everyone assumes that it's facebuster move, but if you see a real good one, you'll notice that it's supposed to land directly on the top of the head and you flow to the pin; that's a good one; also it helps if you don't dramatize it, like the Smackdown games make it look. One swift movement and pin; possibly the most dangerous move in wrestling. Da Ref: For some, I have to go with the moves done by certain people. 1. ARN ANDERSON'S SPINEBUSTER-There was never a time where I didn't watch Double A whip a guy into the ropes, pick him up by the waist, spin around, and drive him right into the mat. What really made it was after the impact where he'd let you know it was over. It's been even cooler AFTER his retirement. 2. THE GREAT MUTA'S MOONSAULT-I am comfortable in my own sexuality to call this one of the most gorgeous moves I've seen. Mutoh made this move look so graceful. Just the way he'd come off the top rope with that backflip and land with what seemed to be unbelievable impact was awe-inspiring. 3. STING'S STINGER SPLASH/SCORPION DEATHLOCK COMBINATION-I was and to some extent still am a Sting mark. They may call it the Sharpshooter nowadays but I can't. 4. MASATO TANAKA'S ROARING ELBOW-While the Diamond Dust is impressive, I have to go with the Roaring Elbow. There are times where he just hits it but then there are times where he just....it's the stiff ones that make me cringe. I have The Legend Dawns DVD with part of the match he had against Koji Nakagawa. I'm surprised he didn't send Nakagawa's jaw into the front row. 5.SHANE DOUGLAS'S/MAGNUM TA'S BELLY-TO-BELLY SUPLEX-I hate overhead belly-to-belly suplexes. I can't stand ones like Rikishi where the pick the guy up and then drop them to the side. When it comes to the belly to belly, Douglas and Magnum TA are the best at them. They made it look so effortless but still made them look like they could take out any opponent. As an Honorable Mention, I'd like to mention our guest columnist The Stro and his "Scare The Hell Out Of The Ring Announcer And Make Him Look Bad." I still laugh about that one. *L* Phantom: Hmm, so many good moves taken so far but here are mine. 1) The Sharpshooter: I’m a huge mark for Bret Hart and I will always love this move no matter what. He had so many way’s of locking you in it no matter how big or small you were. Who wasn’t amazed when he managed to get Yokozuna in it? But when Bret would lock it in, you knew the match was over. 2)The Flying Elbow Drop: While Shawn Michaels has a good version of this, the Randy Savage version is my favorite. He had such grace and balance when he would zip up to the top rope and when he would fly it was amazing to see all the flash bulbs going off. I would have loved to seen Savage beat Hogan cleanly with the move just once. Still the best moment with the elbow was him giving five straight to the Ultimate Warrior and he still couldn’t beat him with it. Watching it when it happened, it was almost like you thought he was trying to kill him with the move. No one will ever top that Flying Elbow with it’s sheer power that he had. 3)The Tazmission: Next to The Sharpshooter this is my favorite submission move. I always loved the way Taz would destroy people and then lock them in the tazmission for added punishment. I think had political powers in the WWF not screwed him over, Taz would have been a huge star for them and he would probably be wrestling right now instead of having to carry Michael Cole every week. I’d love to see someone bring back this move because it doesn’t get the credit it deserves as a finisher. 4)Stone Cold Stunner: How could I not mention this move. Whether it be Austin nailing it on someone or Mikey Whipreck doing it off the top rope…this always has been and always will be a great impact move. It’s especially great when it happens out of nowhere. Much like the leg drop when I was a kid, the Stunner is a move that will bring anyone to their feet to mark out and that’s the best thing you can hope for with a finisher. 5)Black Hole Slam: This move is what made me a huge fan of Abyss. Take the bossman slam and turn into spinning slam and this it what you get. I mark out anytime I see Abyss hit this move and much like the Stunner he can do it out of nowhere. Abyss is going to be the next great superheavyweight and much like The Chokeslam, the Black Hole Slam will be the most fear move to be hit with by a big man. Buzzsaw: 1)Diamond Cutter- You can slap it on at any moment and it looks like it hurts. 2)Pedigree- In it's early years it was probally the best impact move in the game. 3)Tombstone (Undertaker) No one does it better, and you know that it's all over when the dead man drops to his knees. 4)Rock Bottom- Another move that can be done at any moment, And it gets great reaction. 5)Gore- No matter how far Rhyno gets buried. The fans still go crazy for his finisher. Stro: 1. Crippler Crossface- Chris Benoit 2. Sitdown anklelock- Kurt Angle 3. Hass of Pain submission- Charlie Hass 4. Widow's Peak- Victoria 5. SBD(Bearhug DDT)-Stro We at LOP would like to thank The Stro for taking time out of his schedule to join us for Fact or Fiction. As always you can find out information on The Stro on his website TheStro.com for information on his appearences and information on how to book The Stro. Remember...No one can go Toe to Toe with The Stro. And Now for the Plugs The LOP Message Boards. Home to the Psychotic Wrestling Alliance and some of the best discussion on Wrestling, Politics, and Entertainment on the Net Lethal Wrestling: Fact Is Always Worse Than Fiction Ohio Valley Wrestling Meet the stars of Tomorrow…TODAY Check out some exclusive auctions on Raven Memorabilia from Raven himself only at The Raven Effect Spiritual Fitness Wear, A clothing line from Two-Time W.O.W World Champion Heather Lee Millard Send Feedback to Da Ref Send Feedback to Phantom Lord Send Feedback to Dumass Send Feedback to The Stro Send Feedback to Buzzsaw Amazing! RAW's KATIE LEA Looking The Hottest Ever!
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