Wrestling's Fact or Fiction: Stone Cold, Kurt Angle, NWA Tag Titles, and Word Association
Submitted by Phantom Lord on Thursday, April 22, 2004 at 5:12 PM EST



Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends as it’s another edition of the most heat filled column on the entire IWC, Wrestling’s Fact or Fiction. As always I am your ringmaster Phantom Lord and with us as always is LOP’s man who calls it right down the middle…the one and only Da Ref. Joining us again this week is a man who need’s no introducing, but I’ll give him one anyway. He’s a long time moderator over at the LOP Forums and he’s a member of the most dominating group on PWA Pyromania The Westside Connection…This is Japanese Buzzsaw. J Buzz came up with an interesting idea and because of that we have a new feature for F.O.F and that’s the F.O.F Word Association. But before we get to that we have to deal with the questions, so ON TO THE FIRST QUESTION.

Now that Steve Austin has left the WWE, He is now officially the biggest free agent in modern wrestling history

Phantom: I’m going to go with FACT on this one. Austin is much like in the role of Hulk Hogan ten years ago. We said The Hulkster was washed up and had nothing left and what did he do? He turned WCW in a monster company (Even if he brought all of his worthless friends with him…I mean Brutus Beefcake main eventing Starrcade ??? WTF). But Austin’s name still is enough to get people in the door and NWA TNA would be stupid not to offer him something right now. I know for a fact Austin can still wrestle. If he can do the BAH GAWD STUNNER, He can still wrestle. Rumors of him vs. Goldberg on a PRIDE show are all ready running rampant in Japan. Austin is the biggest free agent in history and if TNA wants a chance in hell of being something, they should offer him something to make him want to work for them.

Da Ref: Absolute FICTION. While he has been one of the biggest names of all-time, his name has so much baggage with it. Domestic violence. Problems with companies he's worked for. Plus, what do you bring him in for, especially at what he'd probably ask for? He's banged up to the point where him wrestling would be a let down. I doubt people want him to just go around and be a Commissioner or GM or "Sheriff" or whatever. What else is there for him to do that could put him as a solid free agent?

J Buzz: If this were 1998 I would say fact, but Austin has been a shell of his former self for the last couple of years. New stars are being created and old stars are having there spots taken. I say Fiction Austin still has the biggest name in the business since Hogan but he definitely is not the biggest free agent.

Kurt Angle being thrown off a 20-foot ledge serves no purpose other then another meaningless face turn

J Buzz: Do you smell it?? It smells just like hot steamy ASS! and it is a little thing in the industry that they call shock value. Something that was supposedly over about 6 months to a year ago when a man humped a doll in a casket! Remember that kiddies? Of course it is no where near those extremes but it is close to a certain limo/truck incident that tried to resurrect the infamous shock value. Now we take a journey too last Thursdays SMACKDOWN! just when you thought maybe just maybe Vince and company realized that shock value was truly over , STOP!!!!!!!!!! They have Show flip a car and throw angle off about a 20 foot drop onto concrete with a nicely delayed THUMP! It was completely useless and within a few weeks it will be nothing more than an afterthought. FACT

Da Ref: I'll say FACT. However, I think "meaningless" is the only thing to describe what happened. Where do you go with this? They can't have Kurt come back fresh as a daisy on the next Smackdown after the condition that he was left in. While I realize how weird this is going to sound based on the past, you had Paul Wight "quit" Smackdown. So, how do you turn all of this back around to where you can do something with it?

Phantom: I was really dumbfounded by this. When Angle’s career was in doubt doing something like this would of made sense, but since we know he can wrestle and since he was doing a rather good job as Smackdown GM it makes no sense for them to have done this. Ok we know The Big Show needs time off, so unless this is going to be some sort of Attempted Murder angle complete with a trial or something it will just be senseless violence. Now I’m all for senseless violence, but this was stupid. FACT on this one. Lets just hope this didn’t kill Angle’s career before he did that himself. But hey, He’s Superman. It’s not like a 20 Foot fall was gonna hurt him.

Rob Van Dam will become a huge star, stemming from his move to Smackdown!

Phantom: Define Big Star. If by big star you mean he’s going to finally win the WWE Title he should of won two years ago, then yeah he’s gonna be HUGE. If you mean he’s simply going to be that guy who gets really big pops from the crowd but doesn’t do much of interest then he’s going to continue to be the same guy he’s been ever since Triple H squashed him in October of 2002. I think RVD is going to be worth a damn again, but unless he gets a big push for the U.S. title or something, FICTION on this one.

J Buzz: FICTION-RVD is one of the most over men in the WWE. Even after being stuck in mid card hell RVD's overness proved to have great staying power. Will he become a huge star any more than he already is? no. RVD is at the peak of his popularity and I don't see him getting any more popular than he already is. Will he win the WWE title??? sure but only because he is on SMACKDOWN! and as much as I love SMACKDOWN! they are very very low on star quality and this is probably the only opportunity Rob will ever have to see World Title gold.

Da Ref: If you judge his future based on the recent weeks, that's absolute FICTION. Van Dam had something going with Charlie Haas for the first couple of weeks since he was traded to Smackdown. Since then, it's almost like he's back to where he was on RAW. He's gotten his moment but now he's helping someone else get their moment.

Randy Orton will see a World Title before John Cena

J Buzz: FACT- Although I like Cena more than Orton. WWE seems to be very very high on Orton. After he was given a pretty big feud with a true legend that is Mic Foley and a decent feud against HBK I see WWE leaning towards Orton to be the next mega star and a soon to be WWE Champion! Soon as in before 2005.

Da Ref: When you look at who is more over, you gotta call that one FICTION In terms of being viewed as a draw on his own, Cena is far ahead of Orton. Just watch the shows. When Cena comes out for a match or a promo, the crowd pops like crazy no matter who he's in there with. With Orton, the crowd reacts well when he's in matches as a member of Evolution. However, you can notice the drop off when he's by himself against RAW Random Opponent of the Week. The company may have wanted to try and make Randy Orton into the next Rock but when John Cena debuted for the company, he was Rocky Maivia. He was the babyface that people just got sick of because he was too goody goody. When Cena turned heel, he took a gimmick that could've been the death of anyone, ran with it, and made it very successful. Now, he's one of the most over guys in the company. THAT is the type of guy that gets a World Title.

Phantom: The way I see it, Orton is the one who is being tipped for success in the company. John Cena much like Steve Austin in 1996 is popular by accident. No one expected him to be a huge draw, but he built up the following and McMahon was forced to push him to the top. With John Cena I don’t see that happening because right now he’s in limbo. Because of the FCC Crackdown he had to tone down his act and much like The Big Show, the U.S. Title is just a token title with no real purpose for him. Orton on the other hand just went through hell with Mick Foley and I believe by the end of this year he will be World Champion on RAW. Could I be wrong, possibly…but unless Eddie Guerrero gets the depush from hell Orton will be champion first, so FACT on Orton.

Randy Savage can make a viable appearance in WWE in the next two years.

J Buzz: Fiction- In my opinion I do not believe Randy Savage has anything left to contribute to wrestling in general. WWE needs a Macho Man return like we need an Edge and Christian reunion (Let it go!!! all of you!) The wrestling world is much better when they use progression. Bringing back Mach would get great pops because of nostalgia, but after a while it will burn out very quickly.

Phantom: If Hulk Hogan can make 68,000 Canadian’s boo the hell out of The Rock, then I think Randy Savage could have an equal amount of success in the short run. Only downside is McMahon will do what he did with Hogan and push him to the top right away rather then let things build for themselves. It was a crime that Savage or Hogan wasn’t apart of WM 20, but I think Savage could make a very viable appearance for Wrestlemania 21 next year. So FACT on this one.

Da Ref: I don't know. I'll say FICTION. I think it all depends on how you define "viable appearance." If it's a one-off shot for a PPV, I could see it. However, if it's a long term program, it won't happen. Savage has been out of the wrestling spotlight for too long. The last thing I can recall him doing was a run-in during a WCW Thunder back in 2000. Since then, his name has come up when talking about his rap album and the first [I]Spiderman[/I] movie. I mean, he hasn't even done much when it comes to the Florida indy scene.

NWA-TNA has effectively destroyed the heritage of the NWA World Tag titles by having them won and lost in a week by two separate thrown together tag teams

Da Ref: I gotta say FICTION on this one for now. For one thing, D'Lo and Apollo wouldn't exactly be considered just a thrown together team. I'm pretty sure they've teamed a few times before in the company. Right now, the company doesn't have a lot of teams that are established among the fans. Simon Diamond and Johnny Swinger split up. You have Chris Harris in the middle of a strong program involving the NWA World Heavyweight Title. That leaves the Naturals and Triple XXX to fight for the belts. While I think Low-Ki and Daniels are probably a strong choice for the belts, how established are the Naturals among TNA fans? How smart of a choice would it be to put the belts on them? Then again, I think this is just another sign of the eventual extinction of tag team wrestling. With WWE, you could consider the tag team champions as both being thrown together teams.

Phantom: While I think tag team wrestling in general is in the dumps, things could be worse. The only problem I have with TNA is they bring in an established team like Doring & Roadkill and let them go after a month. They have probably the best tag team on the Indy Circuit in Simon & Swinger and they break them up after a successful tag title run.

Originally I was going to say Fiction, but after last night and another Bullshit DQ Finish title change this is a FACT. The heritage of the NWA World Tag Team Titles have been officially pissed on.

J Buzz: Fiction- History can not be erased! it is in the past and that is where it will stay. TNA is destroying the current credibility of it's tag titles but it can never destroy the credibility of the old NWA tag titles.

Retro: The WWE will never give Lightweights the amount of airtime/respect that WCW did.

J Buzz: Fact- WWE has proven it over and over again. They do not care about the Cruiserweight division. Rey Mysterio, Tajiri, Chavo, Matt Hardy. All have been failures as Cruiser Weight champs! not because they are terrible workers, because they are stuck in a lost division that WWE will never take seriously.

Da Ref: Absolute FACT. Quick. Name one memorable feud over the WWE Cruiserweight Title. Quick. Name one former WWE Cruiserweight Champion that managed to break out after his reign. When Vince decided back in 1997 to restart the Light Heavyweight Division, it was to try and bring in the fans of WCW's Cruiserweight Division. Yet, when the WWF Light Heavyweight Division started, it was like when you try assembling a bicycle without the instructions. You may not know what each piece is but you have a picture of what the final result will look like and that's good enough. Unfortunately, that was almost seven years ago and Vince is still trying to figure out which part is the seat.

Phantom: Of course this is a FACT. Things were promising when Taka was the Lightweight Champion. He had a series of amazing matches with The Great Sasuke and one great match with Christopher Daniels that I still mark out for to this day. But the moment Gillberg was crowned champion that was the moment you knew Cruiserweight wrestling didn’t mean shit in the WWF/E. Now it’s simply a short feud for a month have a ppv match and move on to the next guy system for the Crusierweight’s. It’s a shame since the best wrestlers in the country are all lightweights, but as long as Vince believes the BAH GAWD HOSS will make him money and no one under him has the balls to tell him he’s wrong, Crusierweight’s will never get the air time they deserve.

Retro: Mic skills are more important at making it in wrestling than actual wrestling talent

Phantom: Of course this is a FACT. How is it a guy like John Cena who has basic wrestling skills at best is so insanely over? Cause he knows how to work a crowd. The same thing goes for The Rock. What he lacked in the ring, he made up for on the Mic. If a guy can wrestle, that’s a nice bonus. But what matters the most now is who can cut a good promo. Wrestling is a television driven industry. If you have a guy who can’t talk, then you can’t sell the sport. It’s as simple as that.

J Buzz: Fiction- I think it takes a mixture of both. Bret Hart, Triple H, Ric Flair, Stone Cold, Sting, HBK, Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero. All of those men had a great mixture of mic skills and wrestling ability. Hogan and Rock would be the exception of 2 wrestlers who got over with terrible in ring skills, but it is a very rare occurrence.

Da Ref: Nowadays, it's absolute FACT. The best example of this is Brock Lesnar. I have always said and will always say that Lesnar would not have gotten over nearly as much as he had if he didn't have Paul Heyman as his mouthpiece. If you listened to the few promos that Lesnar did after he and
Heyman parted ways, you could hear that his promo skills were pretty much non-existent and that's being nice. If it wasn't for Heyman, Lesnar would've been working on Velocity or Heat with an occasional push on Smackdown or RAW to get him over enough to help get someone else over.

We all give one person who is associated with wrestling and each of us give the first answer that comes to mind when we hear that certain name. Just one or two words for each person.

Bill Goldberg

J Buzz: Unmatched intensity

Phantom: Career Killer

Da Ref: To much, To soon

Bret Hart

Phantom: Role Model

Da Ref: One of the industry's biggest anomalies

J Buzz: Technical Masterpiece

Chris Benoit

Da Ref: One of my all-time favorites

J Buzz: Great worker

Phantom: Best Thing Going

Vince McMahon

Phantom: Satan

J Buzz: Genetic jackhammer

Da Ref: Sports Entertainment, Not Pro Wrestling

The Big Show

Da Ref: See Bill Goldberg

J Buzz: Charismatic

Phantom: Deserving of Respect

Billy Kidman

Da Ref: Maybe Hogan Was Right

J Buzz: Lucky

Phantom: Ralph Machio’s lost twin (And he gets to nail Torrie Wilson every night)


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