Wrestling's Fact or Fiction: Wrestlemania, Mick Foley, Teddy Hart, Martians in WCW?
Submitted by Phantom Lord on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 at 9:57 PM EST



Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends as it is once again time for the most controversial on the entire Wrestling Internet. Welecome to Wrestling's Fact or Fiction. As always I am Phantom Lord and with us as always is LOP's man who calls it right down the middle, the one and only Da Ref. Joining us this week is a man who need's no introduction, but I'll give him one anyway...Dumass. We have alot to get to this week. Some of it will make sense and some of it will make you wonder what the hell were we thinking when we came up with the questions.

Either way it's on to the First question.

Fact or Fiction: With the lineup of matches so far, Wrestlemania XX will be mediocre at best

Da Ref: Absolute FACT. With about three weeks to go before the show, they have about six matches announced. Yet, am I the only one that thinks this card seems like the card for a show like Armageddon or Bad Blood? First of all, 3-Way Dances are not Wrestlemania main events. At Wrestlemania, the main event should be centered around two guys fighting for the WWE or World Title. Plus, there's two more Fatal Four Ways and both are for tag team
titles. It's coming up on being like Wrestlemania 2000 with there being very few singles matches.

Phantom: I’m gonna say Fact on this one. I mean as I said in my column,aside from Eddie/Angle, Brock/Goldberg, and Undertaker/Kane this is a piss poor show at best. It’s really sad when you say that about the biggest PPV of the year, but it’s the truth. I mean Vince must be insane if he thinks this show will pull in 1 Million buys. Last years show was much better on paper and it did under Half a million. I can see this show getting around 600,000…but no way a million, especially for $50 which in this economy is an insane price to ask. If Vince wanted to start all over he should of charged what ever Wrestlemania 1 cost. That novelty alone probably would of pulled in the buy’s they want. Besides, who wants to watch a show when you know for a fact how certain matches like the Triple Threat World Title match will end. Benoit’s doing the J.O.B on what should be the crowning moment of his career. That’s not what I would call the makings of a stellar show.

Dumass: I'm giving this a FACT because, so far, it hasn't interested me one bit since it was announced. I know people will think I'm negative, but the
product currently hasn't really produced anything for me to jump up and down about, let alone anything to care about. The RAW main event looks boring and the SMACKDOWN main event looks too TV show. The midcard feels like a bad
house show and the opening match (which will probably be the Women's Title match) is a disappointment. Personally, I'm not too happy with what the WWE is trying to make with the 'biggest wrestling show ever',so it looks like
I'll be staying at home watching cartoons all night.


Fact of Fiction: Not having Goldberg on television is seriously hurtingthe promotion and hype of his match with Brock Lesnar

Phantom: Well Duh…Fact. They could be doing so much right now to hype this match with Goldberg/Lesnar but instead its coming off as Lesnar vs. Austin (Which I’m sure we’ll see by Summer Slam). If I remember correctly, Sting met all of hiscontractually obligated dates in his contract and thus wouldn’t wrestle unless he got paid extra. Because of that we got a year and a half of Sting in the rafters. Goldberg/Lesnar is going to be a great match and there is no excuse for why Vince isn’t shelling out the extra cash to keep Goldberg on tv. Hell give me $5,000 in cash an appearance and I’ll be Goldberg. But of course since Goldberg probably isn’t coming back after Wrestlemania and you can see that Stunner on him coming a mile away, I can understand why he can’t be bothered.

Dumass: Obviously FACT, but Lesner giving an F5 to Austin worked to well enough to warrant an interesting match. Goldberg is basically doing the right thing in taking advantage of what his contract says he can
do, and I'm all for screwing someone out of something because it's the law. Unfortunately, no Goldberg, no sell of the product being advertised. This is ultimately not how you do good business, but hey, Vince should have seen it
coming.

Da Ref: As cheap as it is, I'm going to go with UNDECIDED on this one. Having both guys constantly doing promos and such helps to get the match and the wrestlers over. However, the one thing I've noticed is that and maybethis is just me but Lesnar has kept the monster image that he has while also becoming a lot better at promos. Think back to the Smackdown after he lost
the WWE Title to Eddy Guerrero. I enjoyed every part of that promo because of how Lesnar gave it. While there was the cheap shot about Eddy pawning the title, the tone in Lesnar's voice was filled with desperation because he had
no other way to discuss it. Then, when he started talking about Goldberg and eventually dropped to his knees to beg for a shot at him, that got over just how bad Lesnar wanted Goldberg. In the end, I think Lesnar could come away with more to his character and possibly, he could be the one to make the buildup interesting.

Fact or Fiction: Mick Foley beatdown's are not a way to hype a match for Wrestlemania

Da Ref: FACT. After a while, it goes from building up a match to just another segment on the show. Plus, it's just been Orton and whichever Evolution
member(s) involved beating on Foley with Foley not getting all that much in return. They have this big interview where he said that he was able to be the non-Commissioner Mick Foley. Then, what happens? Where is that Mick Foley?

Phantom: I’m gonna go with Fiction for one reason and one reason only. It is my hope that Foley leaves Orton in a pool of blood on Sunday. But I know that won’t happen because they only did all this to put Orton over a badass and it’s worked. But with him kicking the shit out of Foley each week, there must be a climax to this. Usually it’s the face getting revenge on the heel. The match has been hyped and it will come off great, we just won’t get the ending that should happen.

Dumass: FACT. The only positive from the beatdown (no matter how Horsemen-like it was) helped put over the idea that Mick now has something to fight all of Evolution for. I would have been satisfied if it were Foley/Orton, but that won't be happening since it's obvious that the fans would enjoy that more. The beatdown was a bad one as well. Making it about 10 minutes long did not hold any of the interest of the fans and did not make you feel sorry for Mick, which is what was supposed to happen. Instead,
there were people yawning and I heard a BORING chant about to start. It wasn't the way it was supposed to happen, thus it's sucked.

Fact or Fiction: Mick Foley should be facing Randy Orton in a street fight rather then a tag match with The Rock considering The Rock only wrestles when it's conveint for him

Dumass: FACT except for the Rock statement. Everyone knows that it should be Mick Foley/Randy Orton in a Street Fight because that would be end of a feud that's been going on a couple of months now. That would have been perfect
and would have justified the horrible beatdown that happened a few weeks ago
on RAW.

Now, the Rock statement is pretty accurate. He does wrestle when he wants to and he doesn't wrestle very often. I look at it as he's taking advantage of what he has. That's all. I would not put him in the match that Mick Foley is supposed to wrestle. My good friend "Tammy Lynn Stych" thought up a good scenario. Rock versus Ric Flair. In that one move, you have two big names in a high profile match. That's Wrestlemania material.

Da Ref: Absolute FACT. They create this buildup between Foley and Orton. They do all of the beatdowns. With all of it, Wrestlemania would be the perfect place to have the climax to all of this. So, why make it a tag team match with Foley's partner being someone who hasn't had a match in almost a year?

Phantom: You know this is a Fact. I think they only brought The Rock back so Orton could get the win from him. But with all that has happened to Foley, it should be Cactus Jack vs. Randy Orton and Mr. Orton should get a barbwire bat planted between his eyes. It should have been an old school street fight…something out of Memphis. A lot of Blood and a lot of Brawling. That would be the ideal situation to use Foley again especially after he got his ass handed to him so many times in a row from the young punk.

Fact or Fiction: Using Eddie Guerrero's past addictions are making a goodbasis for storylines

Dumass: FICTION because it ruins Eddy in a personal way. I can understand a lot that goes on in wrestling. I know it's hard to really look for real fuel for fueds and such, but do we really need to know that Eddy had 'personal
demons' in the past? I look at it saying that the WWE is really trying to make Eddy a pitied champion and that's not going to help in putting him over. The worst part is that it's only him their doing this to. Why don't they Brock and have someone talk about him almost breaking his neck in that horrible botch of an SSP at last year's Wrestlemania? Why don't they go after Kurt Angle and push in his face that his Olympic trainer died before Kurt headed to Atlanta? How about the Big Show almost having his neck
snapped because Kevin Nash thought it was a good idea to powerbomb him?

I could keep going on and on with alot of wrestlers on Smackdown alone, but the point is that Eddy doesn't need this humiliation to get over with the fans and the heels (writers) don't need to stoop so low. With what has been
said, I'm waiting for the next opponent for Eddy to say that he's the one who supplied his friend, Art Barr, with whatever it was that killed him. Ratings grabber, I'm sure of it; fucking morons.

Da Ref: I'm going with both FACT AND FICTION. When theywere building up Guerrero's match against Lesnar, using Guerrero's past problems was good. It added to his buildup for the match. You have this guy who has gone
through so much in his life. He's overcome so many problems and survived. Now, he's getting the chance to reach the top of the mountain. Then, when he won, it made Eddy look even stronger both mentally and physically. However, that doesn't work AFTERWARDS because it just becomes a cheap way for his opponent to get heat from the crowd.

Phantom: Normally you would think Eddie’s god given talent would be enough to get him over, but since this is McMahon land and we must have a freaking soap angle to
every big match…I’m gonna say Fiction on this one. The way it’s been set up we willget the match of the year from Eddie and Kurt. There is no doubt about that. But with Kurt Angle in ultra moral heel mode and Eddie being a champion of that people (And since the people are
immoral…thus they don’t know what’s good for them), this is one of the few times the WWE writing team have managed to put together a good angle with people who can back it up in the ring. With four hours to kill during the show, there is no excuse for this match to go any less then 40 minutes. They’ve done such a good job with this match, it’s one of the few where I can’t pick a clear winner. That’s always a good sign of good wrestling booking.

Fact or Fiction: All the heat surrounding Teddy Hart is one huge work onhis part and those who hate him

Dumass: FACT. He wants to prove he's a big man and not a whiny little crybaby momma's boy, then accept my wrestling challenge. I'll fight him anywhere, anytime.

Phantom: I say it’s a Fact. I mean now that Teddy is the most hated man in wrestling, he sure seems to be in demand. I mean you have Steve Corino and others challenging him to a shoot match, companies that swore they wouldn’t work with him bringing him back,and over alla lot of money being made by him and the promoters who push him as an egotistical prick. Wrestling is all about hype and Teddy Hart has made a good name for himself being a prick and a lot of wrestlers have gotten attention for saying they want to teach him a lesson. Of course the irony in all of this is one night Teddy will fight someone who took the hype for real and that guy will snap his ankle or break his arm to send a message.

Da Ref: FICTION. It would be one thing if incidents like what happened at Ring of Honor was just one incident of a couple. However, this isn't a new thing. If you recall, Teddy Annis was signed to a WWF Developmental Deal a few years ago. The reason he is no longer under that deal is because there were those that felt he had a bad attitude. After the ROH incident, he went on a number of radio shows and while trying to explain why he did what he
did, he'd talk about how his aspirations to be in WWE. If all of the heat is a work, does that mean he killed his deal in the company to create a work?

Fact or Fiction: NWA-TNA has missed it's chance to make an impact on the industry now that's postponed it's 3 hour ppv again

Da Ref: FICTION. In a way, it's actually a smarter move. Right now, the 3 hour PPV is still up in the air because they don't have an idea as to who
will be challenging Jeff Jarrett for the NWA World Title. Right now, the company has done decent work pushing Chris Harris towards a title shot. With his promo this past week, Raven appears to be getting back in the title hunt. Ever since he lost the title back to Jarrett, A.J Styles has actually been made to look better after teaming with Sting and getting the win over Lex Luger along with his current feud with Abyss. However, while those three are looking like guys that can be serious challengers to Jarrett, would any of those guys be the guy that can draw the huge PPV numbers for the show to be a huge success? For die-hard NWA-TNA fans, it's definite but outside of those fans, it would be less likely.

Phantom: This is a Fact. They should just concentrate on landing a tv deal right now. But with them trying to be all moral of a sudden because of that damn Janet Jackson incident, I doubt that will help there chances. TNA has the in ring action to make a ppv worth the money. If they are worried about getting some aging big name to headline it, then they have more problems then anyone can imagine. Here’s an idea. A.J. Styles is the best wrestler in the land. Why not push him as such. Usually that’s all it takes to get people to want to see a PPV.

Dumass: FACT, but I'm not willing to pay 10$ for a regular show, so why would I pay whatever amount they want to watch outdated 'The Big Three' rejects and indy wrestlers who worked with the NAMBLA Man of the Year. No, thanks.

Fact or Fiction: Lex Luger coming into NWA-TNA shows that it will fail by the end of the year

Dumass: Lex Luger being a part of anything will bring a company down to it's knees. FACT. NWA-TNA needs to really stop relying on really bad star power to get their product over. Take away any type of negative press towards TNA and you'll get some postive feedback from people like myself. The X Division is playing out well, Raven is becoming better than he used to be, and some
indy guys are being looked at as stars. TNA should be running with their best bets, not signing drug-induced murderers (unless it's New Jack) to their rosters.

Da Ref: FICTION. Him coming in to TNA is not a problem. It depends on how he's going to be used and how long he's going to be with the company. For all we know, he could end up jobbing to A.J. Styles to help build him back
up. This is one of those times where we have to wait and see what happens next.

Phantom: I think the idea of him coming back cause he was embarrassed he lost to Styles is good enough, so Fiction on this one. But this is Lex Luger after all. Unless hesuddenly channels his spirit from 1988, The eventual Styles/Luger match could be pretty ugly. I don’t think him coming to TNA will be the reason it fails. What will kill TNA is trying to be family friendly in an age where there is a market for adult themed wrestling. It’s PPV, You should be able to do what ever you want.

Fact of Fiction: Johnny Fairplay will never live up to any real wrestlingpotential.

Dumass: Fuck Johnny Fairplay. Same challenge to Teddy applies to this piece of trash.

Phantom: I say Fiction on this one. The fact that the WWE ripped off his character and gave it to a rookie means it’s being noticed. TNA is trying for the modern version of Lawler vs. Kaufman. Rumor has it Roddy Piper will fight him, if that’s the case then it will be fun to watch since Piper and him do not get along. Jonny Fairplay is a classic asshole and characters like him go far in wrestling. But with the Family Friendly approach as I mention…it can only go so far. I think they can so much more with him, but they are holding back just not to offend any potential network executives.

Da Ref: FACT. Fairplay got the "success" he has from his infamous time on Survivor with most of it coming from his story about one of his relatives dying. The fact that he was able to play not just the other contestants but
the audience shows that he can be convincing. After that, though, what else is there? He doesn't bring anything to the table. "Celebrities" from Survivor prove that Andy Warhol is off when he said that everyone is famous
for 15 minutes. You can be famous for even less. So with his status as a celebrity a non-factor, there's nothing left but bad hair.

Retro Fact or Fiction: In his web journal this week, Raven asked GlennGilbertti about an infamous booking idea of his where he suggested a Martian Invasion of WCW after seeing the movie Mars Attacks complete with Martian
commentator, Interglatic title, and a run in by Captain Kirk. Even though this was a joke, if WCW seriously went with it could the sheer stupidity of it made it a success for WCW

Dumass: FICTION, I guess. Movie tie-ins and wrestling don't really do well for the movie or the wrestling, so I wouldn't be so sure about this 'Martian' invasion working unless the aliens were wearing D-X SUCK IT!!! t-shirts.

Phantom: It might be the prozac talking, but I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say Fact. When it came to WCW and the WWF, The suspension of belief was key. We aren’t watching a real sport…We’re watching a male soap opera. I mean if we’re supposed to believe The Undertaker died after being buried at the Survivor Series and is being Resurrected like Jesus then what is to stop us from believing that Martians can’t wrestle. I mean the whole thing was a joke, but someone at Time Warner would have been dumb enough to say do it. Rick Stiener vs. Chucky anyone? I think this would have been so stupid that people would of tuned in to see what would happen next. Could you people imagine the promo’s between Ric Flair and the head Martian…IT’S RATINGS GOLD.

Da Ref: FICTION. You gotta be kidding me! C'mon, that would've been even more problematic for WCW. While pro wrestling is scripted and the fans are asked to suspend disbelief, there is a limit as to how far one can do that. The idea of a Martian Invasion would've turned away so many fans. The only thing I can imagine is what would be next. The dead rise from the grave and kill the aliens?

Retro Fact or Fiction: The Horsemen would not have been as dominate as a stable if it were not for the infamous beatdown's.

Dumass: FACT. The Horsemen were known for their beatdown’s in the 80s. They were a pack of wolves on the hunt, so the beatdown’s of the major faces at the time needed to happen. It's great if a wrestler is fighting for a title (which it usually was and it was usually Flairs'), but if you can pull off a great beatdown, then the face now needs to avenge himself and his embarrassment more than winning the title. The Horsemen used it perfectly because it had psychology behind it. Evolution's beatdown a few weeks ago sucked because they already made Mick Foley worthless, so why continue to show us?

The Horsemen would not be as big as they were then and now if they skipped a beatdown. They made it a 'heel staple', something that every heel as to pull off at some point in a fued. When the Horsemen did it, it was perfect because they lived that gang mentality; that idea of 'one for all and all for one' thinking, which is why they are the greatest stable in wrestling; the beatdowns just sold the point.

Da Ref: I gotta go with FICTION on this one. The Horsemen were famous for the beatdowns on guys like Dusty Rhodes, Nikita Koloff, Ricky Morton, and others. However, what made them big was the whole concept. Four outstanding workers that worked well with each other and made themselves seem bigger than the company. They weren't large men but they were still booked to be ahead of the game. Plus, the feuds that they had with pretty much every face in the company were just tremendous. The beatdowns added to their image but it wasn't what made or broke them.

Phantom: I’m gonna say Fiction on this simply because It’s The Horsemen. You had the four best wrestlers in the land who held all the gold. Even if they never broke Dusty’s ankle or injured Nikita’s neck they still would have been a dominate force simply because they were better then everyone else. The only difference between them and Evolution is, The Horsemen put over people. I mean would Ronnie Garvin ever been a credible champion if it wasn’t for Flair? Hell The Horsemen took Sting and made him a main eventer simply by telling him he was out. Sure it’s fun to beat the shit out of people, but The Horsemen brought so much more to the table then just beating up Dusty Rhodes and that’s why they will always be the standard bearer for future factions.

Retro Fact or Fiction: Who had more handed to him on a silver platter in Professional Wrestling. Shane McMahon or Greg Gagne

Da Ref: Wow, that's pretty tough. I'll say SHANE MCMAHONby a close margin. Verne gave Greg a lot. Verne put Greg with Jim Brunzell and gave them the AWA Tag Team Titles. Verne actually created the International TV Title for Greg. However, look at what Vince has done for Shane. He gave him the European Title. He booked him into angles with guys like Kane, Kurt Angle, and others. In the feud with Kane, he actually allowed Shane to get more heat on Kane than he should've. Now, while all of that would put Greg and Shane pretty much even, something needs to be looked at. Unlike many other promoters who have sons in their company, Verne never gave Greg the World Title. Instead, he gave his SON-IN-LAW Larry Zbyszko the title.

Phantom: Greg Gagne without question had more handed to him then Shane. Sure Shane gets to live his fantasy of being a backyard wrestler, but Verne built the damn company
around Greg. When Vince creates a title for Shane and has him go through bootcamp with Sgt. Slaughter, then maybe he’ll pull even with Greg. But until then Greg is with out a shaddow of a Doubt more handed to him.

Dumass: To make things fair, I’ll take on Fairplay and Hart with Gagne as the referee.
(Spot by Shane McMahon not included).

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