Wrestlings Fact or Fiction: Coach/Al Snow, Lita, Pillman 9MM, NWO without Hogan?
    Submitted by Phantom Lord on Sunday, September 28, 2003 at 6:28 PM EST

    Welcome back to the most talked about column on the Wrestling Internet, Wrestling’s Fact or Fiction”. Tito was set to make his grand return to this column a couple of weeks ago, but as we know with school things happen and time is something there is not a lot of. As always I am Phantom Lord and with us as always is LOP legend Da Ref. Joining us this week is a man who gets heat just by opening his mouth…the one and only Dumass. We hope this week’s edition will prove to be a thoughtful and heat filled column. So with that in mind, on to the first question.

    Fact or Fiction: Having The Coach and Al Snow replace Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler will turn out to be something that will rejuvenate RAW Broadcasts.

    Phantom Lord: I’m gonna go with Fact on this one. I can honestly say The Coach and Al Snow were really entertaining on Monday Night. They weren’t the new Joey Styles and Cyrus or even a poor man’s Tony Schiavone and David Crocket, but they did a pretty good job considering how bad the show really was. But like I said in my column, I was entertained by them and in turn I enjoyed RAW. Now we all know Good Ol’s JR is gonna beat The Coach this coming Monday so he and The King can get their BAH GAWD jobs back. But at least for me The Coach and Al Snow were a welcome change to The King and JR who wore out their welcome in 2000. If Jim Ross must come back (which I have no problem with as long as he isn’t in ultra sell mode), bring back Paul Heyman to commentate with him. Ross and Heyman were a winning combination in 89-91 in the NWA/WCW. They showed signs of that in 2001 on RAW. Why not use it…oh yeah, it’s the WWE. Since when do they do anything logical.

    Da Ref: I gotta go with FICTION on that one. The reason why is because with the announcements of the match next week between Ross and Coachman, it looks like they're only going with Snow and Coachman for a very short time. I'm not saying that if they did for a good while, it would lead to huge success. The problem is that Snow and Coachman have been a team for a few months. While Snow has shown that he can be a good color man, Coachman has not had success as an announcer no matter who he was paired with.

    Dumass I'm going to go with FICTION because of the fact that they are two heel commentators. They add nothing to the faces and they don't hype the match properly (but in the WWE, when has that ever been a problem[/sarcasm]). I personally think that Coach should get booted and left to a backstage role or something because he is just too boring and doesn't seem to know his stuff. Keep Al Snow on with JR, and then I can be entertained. Lawler is WAY too 1999, and it's been annoying for 3 years now. Al Snow + JR = Quality RAW announcing team.


    Fact or Fiction: With Triple H finally dethroned, RAW Main Events will have a new found sense of unpredictability and excitement that had missing while he was champion.

    Dumass: FICTION for the obvious. RAW is way too much in the gutter for anyone to be interested in it. Ratings went up? That's because the Raiders were getting their asses kicked on Monday Night Football (damn Raiders) and everyone got bored. Realize that just because HHH is going to be gone for awhile doesn't mean that RAW will be any better. Goldberg is champion and who are they hinting on to go after the belt? KANE?! What the FUCK! What has Kane accomplished in the past year to learn a title shot, except losing his dignity and respect because he couldn't say No to his character raping a corpse? Nothing! This is what's going to kill RAW. No established, over with the crowd heels. I say we all start watching Smackdown and put that on TNN (it's still TNN only more gay, don't give me that Spike TV bullcrap) so then the reps at Viacom don't feel so ripped off.

    Da Ref: FICTION Quick question. Name any of the top heels in the company that could generate serious momentum for a feud. Oops, time's up. That's one of the problems. Right now, the only two heels with enough heat behind him to help fuel a program are Chris Jericho and Kane. However, they already took care of Jericho on this past RAW and basically killed him off. With Kane, it looks like he's going to keep feuding with Shane McMahon. That leaves a bunch of guys who the crowd doesn't really get behind. Mind you, it wouldn't matter. The rumor going around is that Helmsley is going to be back in time for Survivor Series. So, it wouldn't be too unreasonable to say that we could see Goldberg drop the title back to Helmsley there.

    Phantom Lord: Well if we didn’t know the horrible truth about him coming back as soon as his attempt to be The Rock is over, this would be a Fact:. While I was watching RAW, it was refreshing to see Goldberg as Champion. I ignored all that I knew and tried to watch as a regular fan again and for the most part that excitement that had been missing in the pit of my stomach returned during the Goldberg/Jericho match. That’s what I’m looking for in a main event. With Triple H you know one thing is for certain. Kick…Wham…Pedigree…Win. With the match on RAW, I was excited because maybe Chris Jericho would finally get his due and win the title. It was not to be this night, but none the less that excitement was there. Ah well, let’s enjoy this time The Game is away while he does his little movie and officially becomes the son Vince McMahon never had.

    Fact or Fiction: Lita’s return to wrestling will finally give some much needed attention to the struggling women’s division to make people care about it again

    Da Ref: FICTION. I don't think there's any female wrestler that can help draw interest in the Women's Division. I got a long letter from someone who took offense to me saying that the division should be scrapped and that the solution is hiring new bookers. While I agree about bringing in new bookers, the problem is perception. During non-gimmick women's matches, the crowd does not react except for the occasional spot. The only female wrestler that draws a reaction is Trish Stratus and even that reaction is slowly getting smaller. Yet, Stacy draws a huge reaction. She actually got Test over for a while. Why? The WWE audience is more interested in seeing women as eye candy. That's why when it comes to DVD/VHS releases involving the divas, WWE always has them doing photoshoots in lingerie or thong bikinis with any matches as bonuses. Why? It's what the audience wants more.

    Phantom Lord: I’m going to say Fact on this one. Listen to the response she has been getting. The entire division combined doesn’t get that reaction. I’ve always liked Lita since her days in ECW as Danny Doring’s valet “Miss Congeniality”. Lita brings a level of excitement to a match and it shows with the fans. I love women’s wrestling. I know there is a huge market for it, I think Lita could once again make Women’s wrestling something much more then eye candy for horny teenage male fans. But then again, it all depends on how it’s booked. Molly vs. Lita should be a great feud since it won’t be the typical “Brunette who hates Blonde” Women’s feud. But on the whole, I think her return will finally showcase the division as something more then a piss break.

    Dumass: FICTION. So Lita came back? She still looks like crap in the ring and making her look like Giant Gonzalez's little sister (it's a height joke people!) doesn't help her out at all. For all the people praising Lita's comeback and everything, I'm waiting for her to go back to the good ol' days where she would attempt a moonsault and, in process, look like she'll break her neck (again). Lita doesn't serve anything to the Woman's division, nor do any of the women in the division (except for maybe Trish and definitely Molly). I say they should stick with what they all know; swimsuit magazines/video tapes and Playboys.

    Fact or Fiction: The Vince McMahon trying to get Stephanie to quit angle will in turn lead to Triple H reuniting with her on Smackdown and them forming a face alliance to bring down Vince

    Phantom Lord: Despite what we know about Triple H coming back around The Survivor Series, I would like to think this one is a Fact. When Triple H gave his little “You need me more then I need you” line this week and Vince challenging Stephanie to a match it got me thinking that the McMahon-Helmsely Faction could very well return. Stephanie is going to lose the match at No Mercy so she and Triple H can go get married. It would make sense for her to come back a couple months later when Vince had something big planned and just as he was going to sick his goons on her, Triple H comes running out and defends his bride. It’s like I said in my column, I don’t see Triple H suddenly becoming Billy Kidman and letting his wife become someone else’s alleged object of affection. Besides, if Triple H goes to Smackdown then he gets to ruin another upper card just so he can say they are not ready for a main event run.

    Dumass: God I hope not. FICTION, though, using WWE mentality (that of a 4 year old eating glue), it will probably happen. If it's on a talent basis, it's because HHH has no real competition on RAW, and even he knows that it sucks. I'm pretty sure this angle has been done before, hasn't it? In some form or another? Well whatever the reason, 3 McMahons on my television isn't going to boast well for me. Thank goodness for the channel changer. Come on Adult Swim!

    Da Ref: Even though it would make no sense and that is always what WWE seems to look for in why they go with angles, I'll say FICTION. To have Helmsley just show up on Smackdown with no real reason behind it to defend the woman he divorced in the storylines make even less sense than anything. Plus, the whole face turn for Helmsley would need to be on RAW because there needs to be a situation that explains why Evolution broke up.

    Fact or Fiction: The Tag Team titles on RAW and Smackdown should be unified so one set of champions defends on both shows eliminating the need for 2 titles in a lack luster division

    Da Ref: FACT. I think the current state of the company dictates that the Tag Team and Heavyweight Titles should be unified. Right now, neither show has a strong enough roster to be serious challengers. If you combined the tag teams from both shows, you might not even have a strong tag team division. However, there are enough guys just hanging out in the back or working Velocity/Heat to pair up and become teams. Then, you could have more of a solid division with the top contenders along with the teams that are on the bubble.

    Dumass: FICTION, mainly because I don't believe either faction is really that bad. Now, I will give the obligatory "It's the writers and bookers fault" answer because it's the right one. The writers and bookers need to care a little more about the tag titles on Raw AND Smackdown. The face Dudleys aren't cutting it on Raw, and neither are The Frenchies. And with Smackdown not having any real competition lately, it does hurt a bit, but not enough for me to say that they should unify the titles. The bookers do need to put more emphasize on the tag team titles. Maybe pull a page from ECW's book and have random tag teams. That way you can showcase the talent even more. But no merging; they did that with the IC and World title and look at it (the IC title) now.

    Phantom Lord: That’s a Fact. The Tag team divison on both shows is pretty much Three established tag teams and cannon fodder mixed together for those other matches. We have The Dudley’s who should be their old ECW violent selves. Then we have Benjamin/Haas who are the nearest thing this generation has to the new Stiener Brothers and finaly Los Guerrero’s who were only put back together because Eddy can do no wrong and Chavo is setting himself up to be the next Owen Hart. Outside of that there is no real divison. Sure there are The Bashem Brothers, but they are to green to be a real threat. Don’t even get me started on The Frenchie’s and how they earned their spot on the main roster. There aren’t enough tag teams for one division much less two. They should just have one set of World Tag Team Champions for both shows. The simplest solution would be to can the tag division on RAW and send The Dudley’s to Smackdown as heel’s. Use the time for those tag matches to rebuild the Intercontinental title division. That’s the smartest thing to do.

    Fact or Fiction: John Cena would make a great United States Champion on Smackdown

    Dumass: FACT damnit! Come on. Give Cena the title for at least 2 weeks and I can see the credibility of that title going up (not that it isn't going anywhere with Eddy holding it now). Ok. John Cena isn't much of a wrestler. He's still a bit green and he needs to improve on some aspects of the whole "telling a story" thing. But what John has more of than anyone on Smackdown is overness. He is incredibly over with the crowd. With that and the US title, he could be a major threat for the mid-weight wrestlers and the fans would eat it up like that 'Pimpjuice' crap I saw on CNN. This would be a opportunity missed by the WWE if they don't use Cena's overness to their advantage while he's still accepted by the crowd.

    Phantom Lord: You better believe this is a Fact. John Cena is so over with the crowd it isn’t even funny anymore. Why they are not cashing in on him is mind numbing. I hate rap, but I love the whole Thuganomics gimick Cena created for himself. John Cena is everything that a future main eventer is. The United States title has always taken someone who was over with the crowd and moved them on to greater things. John Cena is ready to move to that level. Set up a feud between him and Matt Hardy and we will get some highly entertaining promo’s and midcard matches.

    Da Ref: I'll go with FACT. I'm not too impressed with Cena in the ring but the guy gets over with the crowd. He's one of the top heels in the company and could do something with strong in the business. Having him as just someone to throw to the lions would be a huge mistake.

    Fact or Fiction: Billy Gunn should retire from wrestling considering how injury prone he is

    Phantom Lord: Of course this is a Fact. Him being so injury prone is just a nice excuse for him to finally retire. Billy Gunn is the best example of someone who is all talk and no bite. Had it not been for the New Age Outlaws getting over in 1997, Billy Gunn would of probably been fired a long time ago. Vince is convinced that the Billy Gunn who was over in 97 still exists in the body of Billy Gunn now who can’t seem to go more then two months with out injuring himself. Many wrestlers have taken it as a cosmic sign that when they get hurt to often, it’s time to hang up the boots. Billy should take this latest injury as a sign it’s time to go. He’s a loyal McMahon guy, so he has a road agent job waiting for him. Retire all ready and stop holding down Jamie “BY GAWD” Nobel.

    Da Ref: FACT. Mind you, this was something that should've happened a couple of years ago. If I'm right, Billy Gunn has been in and out of the ring since about 1999 because of various injuries. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if during the past 4 years he's spent maybe just around a year of it in the ring. Gunn has not exactly been able to get something going in his singles career and the fact that he is extremely injury prone won't exactly help him anymore.

    Dumass: FACT! and not because he's injury prone. It's because he's boring. He's boring me. He's probably boring you too. The only ones he isn't boring are the ones that are 1) blind, 2) stupid, or 3) blind and stupid. Get him off of my TV....NOW!


    Fact or Fiction: There were better candidates for the PWI 500 # 1 Wrestler of 2003 then Brock Lesnar

    Da Ref: I'm gonna say FICTION only because I don't really think much of the PWI 500 to begin with. The list judges more on how a guy is pushed than whether or not they're good workers. The top 2 spots have usually been reserved for the WCW and WWF World Champions. After that, they usually mixed in WCW and WWF guys for the Top 10. From there, they add in guys from Japan, Mexico, independents, etc. When you get to about #300, a number of those spots can be purchased by wrestlers. A couple of guys that I've worked with have been in there. So, the bottom line is that there were no better candidates for the PWI 500 because the way of gathering that Top 500 isn't all that well done to begin with.

    Dumass: FACT. I'm not a Brock Lesner hater mind you. I think he's going along great. But I do know what is the best and what isn't and I know that Brock isn't yet. But this is the very biased and very 'asine' PWI saying it, so I guess in there minds, Brock is good enough. I personally would have went with someone like American Dragon or maybe Eddy Guerraro. Now, I'm not biased. I have an angst with American Dragon, but I know that he is much more talented in the ring than Brock. Eddy? It's Eddy. That's all there needs to be mentioned. He has been phenomenal this year and has pumped out at least 4 MOTY candidates for 2003. I wouldn't give it to Brock Lesner, but hey, it's the PWI; what are you going to do?

    Phantom Lord: I’m going to say Fact on this one only because Eddie Guerrero had a much better year then Brock Lesnar. But PWI bases everything on pushes and wins over who is really deserving. I mean Mark Henry and Nathan Jones were in the top 200 and Rodney Mack was ahead of Tommy Dreamer and Steve Corino. I haven’t bought an issue of PWI in a real long time, but from what I remember of it they make a pretty big deal out of their rankings. I think the whole dumb farm boy thing with Brock hurt him, but it’s better Brock is Number 1 and Triple H is 2 (Which in it self is a joke).

    Retro Fact or Fiction: If the WWF/E and Vince McMahon never gone to trial in 1994 for steroids, then he would not frown upon wrestlers using them now.

    Dumass: That's would imply that he has a problem with it now. FACT. Vince is always one to want to raise a bar or something like that. Honestly, I think the whole trial was a big joke. The judges just wanted Vince to say that wrestling was fake and, if that happened, they would have been justified. I mean, look at who they had testify. Hulk Hogan, who was about to be let go because he was becoming boring to the fans; Nailz, who, at one point, said that Vince tried to rape him backstage; so he instantly was against Vince (stating that he did use steroids - Hulk), and a few more people who really didn't understand what was going on in the trial (Rick Rude for one). Lucky for Vince, the judges said 'Not Guilty', but that trial would really shitbrick the industry for awhile. Nowadays, I'm pretty sure the obvious wrestlers (Steiner, HHH, and probably Vince himself [he has been testified to taking them before]) "shoot up" every once in a while with all the backstage officials turning their heads sideways for them. Do I think Vince still encourages it? Yea, he probably does. Is he wrong for doing it? No, he isn't. If the federal government says he isn't, then he isn't.

    Phantom Lord: Since when has being brought up on charges ever stopped anyone from committing criminal acts. Vince didn't care back then and he doesn’t care now. Fiction on this one. I mean if I was running the company and my highest paid wrestlers like Kevin Nash, Scott Stiener, and Triple H all were becoming very injury prone because of to much muscle mass, I would throw up a red flag. But like I said, Vince doesn’t care. But when a lot of his former wrestlers start developing health problems like ‘Superstar’ Billy Graham, we all can sit back and say “you know, maybe he should of cared”.


    Da Ref: FICTION. C'mon, that implies that he frown upon them now. Take a look at some of the wrestlers he employs. Do yourself a favor and take a look at DX Helmsley circa 1999 and then Helmsley circa Fully Loaded 1999. Scott Steiner has gotta still be on the juice. If he wasn't, he would be a whole lot smaller than he is now. I gotta question some of the guys that came up from OVW especially the guys that came from the WCW Power Plant. Take a look at Sean O'Haire and Mark Jindrak when they were in WCW and look at them now. Back then, there were a number of guys that I worked shows with saying that they could see the needle marks from when they were shooting up in WCW.


    Retro Fact or Fiction: When Steve Austin invaded Brian Pillman's house and he pulled a gun on him, that was the real start of the Attitude era in the WWF.

    Da Ref: I gotta say FICTION. While that was a precursor to the whole Attitude Era, that was just one incident. The reason why it wasn't was because McMahon was still going with the standard way of doing things. Not long after the gun incident, that was when ultra-babyface "The Blue Chipper" Rocky Maivia made his debut and you also had stables like the NOD, DOA, and Los Boriquas that were completely heel. Plus, the Attitude era was about blurring the lines and creating shades of grey in the whole good guy/bad guy thing. After that, there were no shades of grey and everything was one way or the other.

    Dumass: FACT. It was the first segment in the changing Attitude era that used 'shock TV' to get it over, and that's a fact. Guaranteed people will ask "What about the Austin 3:16 speech at KOTR?" Though it's kickstarted the Attitude thing, it wasn't until Pillman attempted to kill Austin for the sake of 'protecting his home' that made wrestling enter a new area of entertainment that wasn't done before. Everyone seems to have forgotten this very important segment. It made Pillman a genuine psycho and it put Austin as a very DANGEROUS threat to Pillman. Only Pillman could have pulled off something like that. As much admiration Austin gets for the era in general, Pillman deserves the respect he didn't recieve, since it was by this segment (named Austin 3:16 meets Pillman 9mm) that made Austin incredibly over and officially started the Attitude era of the WWE.

    Phantom Lord: I’m going to say Fact on this one. Attitude was all about shocking people to watch. When RAW went off the air and all you saw and heard was darkness and a gun shot, that was pretty damn shocking. People say Vince Russo is the scum of the earth for doing this kind of tv, but it was Jake “The Snake” Roberts who came up with this gem and I’ve always thought drama like this would work great in wrestling. But when you have a show marketed towards adults but who’s prime audience is children and teenagers…it doesn’t quite work that way. Sure, Austin committing Blasphemy cemented the attitude era, but Brian Pillman pulling a gun and firing at Steve Austin was the true starting point for everything that was ATTITUDE.

    Bonus Retro F.O.F: Anyone could have been the original third member of the NWO when it formed and they still would of went on to have all that success

    Dumass: FACT. Why? Because it was going to be huge no matter what. Why does everyone give the huge deal to Hogan? We saw what Hogan did to the NWO. The one-finger match, owning the title over and over again, and taking the spotlight whenever he can. The point of the NWO was to make a force to go against WCW, not to create more fanbase for Hogan. The original plan, as some of you may know, was the third member to be Bret Hart since Bret's contract in the WWF was ending around the time they were creating the NWO. Bret would have been a better choice because it would have shown a dejected Hart defecting to the NWO. Why did they pick Hogan? Because Bret renewed his contract. That's why. So yes, someone else would have been better than Hogan. Could anyone? Not anyone, but someone else. Bret would have been a better addition than Hogan, no doubt about it.

    Da Ref: Absolute FICTION. I'm not saying that no one else could've taken the role of the 3rd member and been a success. However, it couldn't have been just anyone. Putting Hogan in there made Hall and Nash more of a threat because you had the biggest name in the business with them. It added more because of the fact that Hogan was the absolute biggest babyface to ever walk the planet and he turned just out of the blue. So, you had Hogan's name behind the group and that immediately elevated the group. Saying that just anyone could do it is ridiculous. Think about it. If the 3rd member of the NWO was John Tenta, do you think the fans would care all that much?

    Phantom Lord: I remember Scott Hall saying this before the Bash at the Beach PPV. “It will be The Big Mang, The Medium sized Mang, and The Small Mang”. That implied it was going to be Nash, Hall, and someone else. That someone else was not Hulk Hogan. So, Fact on this one. Bret Hart ended up getting that infamous 20 Year/$20 Million dollar deal from the WWF, so him going to WCW was out. I think it would of made more sense for Randy Savage to turn heel in that match…but we all know Hogan and his creative control. The n.W.o was something that was going to be big no matter what. The fact a couple of “Outsiders” invaded Dubbya C Dubbya was big in it self. Anyone could have been that third wheel in the group. Hogan was in the right place at the right time, it’s as simple as that.

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