Posted in: The Northern Star Excuse The Aggravation: Episode 91
By XanMan
Mar 21, 2009 - 10:38:09 AM
Excuse the Aggravation, but I'm XanMan. Welcome to Late Night with Jimmy Fallon!
Late Night...? With... Jimmy... wha? Who? I thought... But... I'm sheepster, and I'm so very confused right now.
With
XanMan and sheepster
BeyondKnight fills the musical chair known as Stat Boy today.
Hello boys and girls, and welcome to ETA. Sheep and I discuss some things regarding Wrestlemania, before he goes and makes some tea while CoLd checks in to talk with me about ROH. But...
We start with John Cena, who was ceremoniously shoved into the Edge/Big Show feud. Is this the best use for Cena, Sheep? Robbing your boy of some of his time in the spotlight?
I was thinking about this just last night. As much as I love Big Show, and as awesome as Edge is, a match between the two was never going to be a good main event for Wrestlemania. Those two trying to compete with the epic encounter of Orton and Triple H is akin to throwing bricks at a speeding train. With Cena in there, you've got a bit more starpower, and it's something different. You've now got the clash of the titans on one hand and a nice little (possibly comedic) three way dance on the other. They're two different psychologies, and it gives people a bit of everything. I'm not quite sure how Cena fits into this story between Edge and Big Show other than being a rather voyeuristic third (fourth?) wheel, but it helps raise this match at least three matches up the card. And that can only help my man get more exposure. In that respect, it probably is the best use for him. John Cena is the star of the company, and this is where he's going to be for the next several years.
Don't remind me. I don't get why everyone thinks the best of use of Cena is to be in the World Title picture, but maybe it's just because there isn't anyone else larger than life in the company. It's probably a failure of the WWE that the only active guys that Cena could participate in a feud with that would be big enough without the title for Wrestlemania are fighting each other. I guess that's an epiphany I've just come to--the reason Cena keeps being champ isn't because he's not bigger than the title, it's because hardly anybody else is. That being said, I would much rather have seen Show one-on-one against Edge with appropriate build-up and Hogan vs. Cena than what we're getting.
Hogan vs. Cena? Really?? I know that sounds epic, but right now, that match would be dire. 30% of the audience already hate Cena because he "only has 5 moves". At this point in his life, Hulk Hogan only has 5 moves left that he's able to do, and none of them include the Leg Drop. The minute he does that, his hip'll pop out. In what way would that be better than what we're getting now? If you really want to use Cena somewhere else... you could... er... well... or maybe... no... hmm. There is nowhere else. The reason he's best used in the World Title picture is because that's where WWE have put him. Of course there are other people that can do justice to the title. But there's nowhere else for Cena to go. He's got Rock Fever. From November '98 until August '02, The Rock was constantly battling for some sort of world title. He was never away from the scene for less than a month or two. If they put Rock anywhere else, it felt strange. He was out of place. If Cena wrestles for a lower title, or a tag team title, or just a random feud against someone else without a title, he'll seem out of place. I think WWE said as much when they allowed him to make a new belt for himself.
Regardless of how shitty the actual match would be, right or wrong people see Cena as the new Hogan, and it would have been cool for the two to face off at the 25th edition(not anniversary, edition) of Wrestlemania. While we all know that Hogan left the business behind as an active competitor a long time ago, this would have been an actual passing the torch moment. It happened symbolically a long time ago, but this would have been something tangible to see...always assuming Hogan agreed to job to Cena. The comparison to The Rock is an apt one, so maybe the same kind of thing could happen if Johnson would get his head out of his ass and return for an angle or two.
That'd be far more spectacular. Unfortunately, Dwayne is never coming back to us. Not for a wrestling match. I'd bet my favourite ukulele on it.
Xan. After all this build-up and hype and wondering which direction they'll take it, what are your feelings on Chris Jericho's apparent match at Wrestlemania?
I like it. I've seen a few people shit on this idea so far, but it gets four wrestling greats, two of them who have had great matches at Wrestlemania involved in the card, and none of them(save maybe Flair) could believably beat Chris Jericho on their own, but in a gauntlet match where he'll be facing three legends, with Flair and possibly Mickey Rourke in their corner? Some legends will get their day in the spotlight at Wrestlemania Silver, go over on Jericho, and he won't lose any heat because of it. Would I have preferred Austin? Yes, but this is a much better fall-back position than, say, Jerry Lawler.
With all this hype, I was expecting something more. I don't know what I was expecting, but not this. This is all so very 'meh' to me. Whenever they need old people, they bring out the same old legends time after time. I know they haven't got that many that they can rely on, but there's only so many times that I can be excited over Rowdy Roddy Piper wrestling again. I'll admit that the gauntlet-style dynamic will make it more entertaining. With Rourke and Flair on hand, my interest is piqued. But we all know this is ending up in a comical 5-on-1 beatdown. There's a perfectly good Intercontinental title that he could have challenged for. There are tag team titles. I'm sure there's still a U.S. title hanging about somewhere. Jericho is that kind of guy. Give him a belt and watch him light up the ring with his witty promos.
That's a fair point, Sheep, but I really think this is the result of several different plans falling through. They probably started the angle with the notion of bringing in Mickey Rourke as Jericho's opponent, but when that fell through had to resort to something else. I'm assuming Hogan, Austin, and Flair all refused to wrestle and they had to use this as a last resort. Given my beliefs, I'm not going to shit all over what they're doing, because they had to do something with the angle, and I'm sure they made the best out of a bad situation. And, let me reiterate that that best can work out to be beneficial--or at least not harmful--to all involved. But, of course, that depends on the abilities of Lawler and Cole to sell it that way; an ability I have doubts about.
Hmm. You could be right. But that doesn't excuse the samey crop of has-beens they keep dipping in to. Perhaps they should think outside the box. Look at the Hall of Fame this year. There's a chance for more cross-promotion. Chris Jericho vs. the Funks? That could be a brutal match. Or go even further afield. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Savage. That would be amazing. And that would bring back some old fans that may have drifted away. All they'd have to do is bury the hatchet between Savage and McMahon, and that hatchet looks to be in a shallow grave already with Savage's DVD coming out. The fans get a classic, legendary matchup at Wrestlemania, and WWE get increased buyrates and pre-release DVD hype. Simple! They should put me in charge of this stuff.
Ring of Honor's new show starts this Saturday on HDNet. I don't know if you have that channel in the UK, but I'm sure it'll be available to stream. Are you planning to watch?
I hadn't even heard about this. Is this a new TV show of theirs? I've only ever seen them once and my mouth was wide open in awe for at least half of it. If they can recreate that kind of spectacular wrestling on television, I'd certainly make an effort to watch and keep up with it. But what does this mean for TNA and WWE? I don't know how big a channel HDNet is. We don't have it in the UK. Are they likely to hit TNA-level ratings straight away, or is this more of a foot-on-the-ladder type move? As a recent ROH-convert, how do you see this playing out?
Yes, they're starting a new national cable television show called "Ring of Honor Wrestling." It will be on Saturday nights at 7 o'clock Central Time on HDNet. I have no idea how many markets carry the channel, so I have no idea what the chances are that they'll surpass TNA straight away, but at least it gets them a foot in the door. I think true wrestling fans will enjoy the hell out of the ROH product, and that it's a lot better than either TNA or the WWE, but I'm worried that nobody will be able to find the show. If they do, I'm sure it will succeed. As someone who buys their dvds, I'm hoping that they use those to set up the PPVs and that this show is just kind of a showcase of their talent, because I'm worried there will be a very limited fanbase that has access to this program.
Okay. Hypothetical best-case scenario now. Word gets out about how awesome ROH really is, perhaps they get a better TV deal on a more popular station in a year or two and their audience spreads like a pandemic super-virus. Does it: a) copy ECW and never quite make it; b) copy WCW and beat WWE for a while before crashing; c) copy TNA and flounder in mediocrity; or d) blaze its own path and push WWE into a prolonged second place? And how long until we see your prediction come to fruition?
They're too well run to go the way of WCW, ECW, or TNA. They will either maintain what they've been doing, or they'll get a decent audience and eventually settle into a 2nd place a comfortable distance behind WWE. I'd guess the second will happen with 3 years, if there are enough fans out there that still enjoy wrestling. The only way they'll challenge the WWE briefly is if there's someone with money that buys them up, but that will eventually end in ruin, most likely. My dream scenario would be that a fan of the company, with faith in their vision and with a good deal of money were to purchase/invest in them, but keep their nose out of the creative direction. If that were to happen, all bets are off, but who'd really take bets on that ever happening?
5 Good...
Questions with Walter O'Dim
Man in Black, welcome to the show.
No problem. Since you're the only Main Pager I follow, it's an honor. Long time no see. Its been a while and I hope ya remember me. It's your boy CoLd in the place to be. 5 Questions? Shit that's easy.
I don't know if I can keep up with your rhymes, so let's go ahead and jump right into the questions. We've got a theme here in this session. These will, of course, have an ROH flavor since they're starting their new show this weekend. Give me some strong answers, and try not to go off the deep end.
Cool Beans.
As the resident LoP indy expert, what is your feeling on ROH getting a new TV show, and what should people look for?
How do I feel about ROH getting a TV deal? If you asked me that question a year ago the answer would have been simple. The past year ROH has gone through several huge changes which have changed their product dramatically. I think their product was a lot better when Gabe Sapolsky was booking their shows. I do believe that ROH still has what it takes to be a viable alternative to the WWE and TNA. I just hope they don't fall into the same waters as TNA and dilute their vision of wrestling just for more viewers.
Now onto the good stuff. We are gonna make this fun and anyone who has ever read any of my columns know that I love a good list. So I give to you the top 5 ROH wrestlers that I think will make the best transition to " Sports Entertainers or whatever they are called now "
1 - Jimmy Jacobs : My favorite wrestler and second favorite talker in ROH. Probably has the best mind for wrestling on the Indy's. He can talk with the best of them on TV today and can wrestle any style of match. The guy may be small but he makes up for it anyway he can. Fans might not believe him as a serious threat but once they got to see the whole package [ No Homo ] then I believe Jacobs has what it takes to build a nice following.
2 - " THAT Young Knock Out Kid " Chris Hero : One of the bigger guys in ROH , Chris probably has a body type that most casual fans are used to. He looks the part and plays the part of a " Sports Entertainer " better than any other Indy Wrestler. He is currently working a gimmick where he focuses on knocking his opponents out. The guy has everything it takes to be a Wrestling Star.
3 - " A Double " Austin Aries : This may be a shock to my buddy Xan but I'm finally starting to like the guy. Austin Aries has always been a solid worker but he never had much going for me when it came to his persona. He has recently had a complete gimmick overhaul and his new gimmick is pure awesome.
4 - " The Last of a Dying Breed " Eddie Kingston : We will talk a bit more about him later.
5 - " The Mother Fucking " Necro Butcher : The Wrestler. If you've seen it then you pretty much know what you're in store for from this guy.
I always assumed your hatred for Austin Aries was feigned because he was feuding with your boy, since I'm very impressed by him, and I think he's the total package. And, speaking of such, Go Shiozaki had a great year in 2008 for ROH and now is apparently appearing in WLW. Do you think he could be the first real Japanese success story in the WWE eventually?
Harley Race is the owner and promoter for WLW. He is also the middle man between NOAH and ROH / FIP. If any wrestler from NOAH gets booked in the United States or if any Indy wrestler gets booked in NOAH it usually goes through Harley. Go has worked with WLW , ROH and FIP while he was in the states. He had a decent run in ROH / FIP where he would win the FIP Heavy Weight Title. I saw him wrestle Austin Aries live in an awesome match that had a bunch of stuff I had never seen before.
Currently Go has returned to Pro Wrestling NOAH and has received a monster push upon his return. He will be getting his very first GHC Heavyweight Title Match against Jun Akiyama's on 4/19. Like KENTA , Naomichi Marufuji and Takeshi MORISHIMA , Go was sent to the United Sates to brush up on his work and to grow as a worker. He is one of a few young wrestlers in NOAH who are being groomed for a bright future. If he ever decides to return to the United Sates I'm sure the WWE could do good things with him. As good as he is I doubt he will be the first real Japanese success in the WWE unless he learns English. Given a manager, he has all the potential in the world.
And, speaking of ROH guys moving on, you're on record as saying that Bryan Danielson can't really be considered the best wrestler in the world unless he succeeds in the WWE. Will he jump there? How about Nigel? The Briscoes?
Will he jump or should he jump? Should he jump is a lot easier to answer. If you ask me, he has nothing more left to accomplish in ROH. Maybe he could become the first two time champion or the first and only triple crown champion but that's not much. With the recent whispers about him retiring and his MMA training I could see him never being a WWE wrestler. I hope one day he signs with the WWE and shows everyone why he is called " The Best Wrestler in the World," but I doubt it will happen.
Nigel and The Briscoes on the other hand I see signing with the WWE. Nigel would probably fit better on the WWE roster then any Indy wrestler today. He has what it takes to make it in the WWE system and over the last year has gotten really good with the microphone. With a serious push he could be a huge star in the WWE one day. The Briscoes have what it takes to be stars anywhere. If the WWE were ever serious about rebuilding tag wrestling these are the guys to start with.
Now that we've discussed some of the current stars of ROH, let's get into the future. Tell us more about this Eddie Kingston fellow you're into.
" The Last of a Dying Breed" Eddie Kingston has been busting his ass on the Indies for some time now. He is a graduate of the second class of students who trained at the CHIKARA Wrestle Factory, where he was taught his in-ring skills by Mike Quackenbush and Chris Hero. His biggest rivalry is with one of his teachers, Chris Hero. They have had numerous matches in numerous promotions. They have a heated rivalry that only seems to get more brutal as it goes along.
Eddie Kingston is set to make his Re-Re-Re-debut in ROH with their television debut. He is known to have many personal problems and has no showed many shows for many different promotions. If he has his shit in order he can be a huge asset to ROH. He knows how to do a promo better then anyone on the Indy's and he brings intensity that is rarely seen now a days. He may not be in the best of shape and he wont be the best wrestler but he knows how to make up for his weaknesses. ROH needs guys who can cut promos and hook people into their product. " The King of Diamonds " Eddie Kingston is that guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6FewFRfaWU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4h5Cu5WZcc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cHefF4FmHg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoXGE3nVBpI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLPIfv_5JiA
He sounds pretty awesome. First the present, then what could be, then the future, now the past, so we'll get you out on this:
How in the world did the WWE screw up with Colt Cabana so badly when he'd seem to have been a better fit for WWE than CM Punk--who won the Triple Crown in about half a year?
Simple. The Creative Team = Shit. That includes Vince and Steph. I honestly believe they are no longer in touch with what wrestling fans really want to see. They are stuck in the same old mode and are always scared to try something new. Their farm system is in shambles and they cant seem to create new stars for shit. Also, the whole concept of " The WWE Look" is so fucking stupid. If the WWE want nothing but male models they need to stop hiring people who don't fit "The WWE Look."
Colt Cabana is a hell of a talent. He had every tool possible to make it as a WWE superstar. For some reason they couldn't be bothered with giving him the time of day on TV and seeing what he could do. The WWE really need to rethink the way they hire guys. Most new WWE guys flop and the WWE just let them go. If the WWE don't fix their farm system soon they just may end up like WCW when they died: A ton of wrestlers who have been there for years with no new stars. Wake up WWE, Us fans want something new; we are tired of your bullshit.
That was great stuff, O'Dim. I think our audience got quite an indy education in just a few paragraphs.
Yep. It's time for me to get up on out of here. I think I done said to much. I had a good time guys but your boy gotta jet.
You can call me sick...but the world is CoLd. Bundle Up.
Lie Detector
Christian will win MITB and then move to Smackdown to taunt his "brother" over when he'll challenge him for the World Title.
Wrong wrong wrongity wrong. They aren't going to let Christian do anything. Like most of the old WCW guys who came over to WWE at the very end, Christian will be seen as a traitor for a long while. WWE have been very reluctant to give outsiders a run with the big titles. Looking at the participants, he looks like the best winner up there, but I can't get past the fact that he left WWE. MVP will win MITB.
One set of brand-floating tag team champions is finally the kick-start to the division that we've all been waiting 7 years for.
Buzzz! For that to happen, Vince McMahon would have to embrace the fact that tag team wrestling is something people want to see; that it can draw, and he'd then have to invest in some good tag teams. I enjoy Carlito much more in the pairing with his brother, but how many natural teams do they reall have? The Colons, Cryme Tyme, Jesse and Festus, The Edgeheads. That's it, and four teams does not a division make. There are plenty of teams out there McMahon could steal, and one of the best ones--The Briscoes--will be free agents within the next month or so.
Sting and Mick Foley are going to pull out a classic match at Lockdown.
I guess I'll say that you're wrong. I can't remember the last time that Foley put on a classic match without lots of weaponry. As I understand, he'll be trapped in a cage. There's not much you can do in a cage. I've not seen many cage matches I'd actually call a "classic". And I've never seen Sting wrestle before, so I can't judge how he'll handle it. They're both well over 40 too. And people who wear face-paint are silly.
The 25-woman Diva Battle Royal will be the single worst match in Wrestlemania history.
Um...wait? What was your question? I'm still stunned by you saying you've never seen Sting wrestle.
Beyond the Stats
Oh sweet Jesus, you two make my brain hurt. I know that you invited me here as some kind of quote unquote "stat" man, but you should know that I find math to be a tool of Satan in the perversion or souls. A wise man told me that Heretics can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that.
Instead I am going to dispel you of some notion that WWE is for "wrestling" fans. It's not, it's for children. Sure there was a period there in history where the children of the Hulkamania era became edgy, angsty, and hormonal teenagers and the product was geared for us with the Attitude Era. But now, the WWE is trying to tell us in every possible way they can we either need to regress and enjoy the show on the same level we did back in the ever so referenced day, or simply hang it up and watch real sports like normal adults.
John Cena isn't going anywhere and will be involved in every Wrestlemania main event for at least the next 5 years. Xanerico, I know that you will be in Houston but if you are counting on a John Cena loss, you might want to leave after the HBK/Taker match and just pretend like the rest of the card never happened. I have a deep sense of dread that for many of you on the brink of your wrestling fandom, Mania 25 will not redeem you, it will be your final point of alienation. Its a new era for entertainment, the biggest concerts tickets in the world are promoted on the Disney Channel, and its WWE-PG. And to quote Marty McFly "I guess you aren't ready for that yet, but your kids are going to love it..."
One, at least, already does. Just because I know you're right doesn't mean I have to like it and sit quietly by while it happens.
Big Finish
Your boy, Matt Cassell, has been traded to the Kansas City Chiefs since our last episode. How do you feel about this?
Matt who? I've no idea who you're talking about. Tom Brady is our man from now on. He's coming back for the start of the season and he'll destroy you all. Especially the Bills.
Talking of obscure sports, Wales take on Ireland tomorrow with the Six Nations Championship on the line. What will the final score be, oh Great Oracle Xan?
47-6, Wales. Would that make you happy?
The NCAA basketball tournament--affectionately known as March Madness--is starting this week. Who've you got?
I've got Brazil. Those guys win everything.
Nicolas Cage is starring in yet another movie that doesn't look any good. Is he ever going star in a better movie than The Rock?
He already did. It's called Con Air.
What's the deal with yellow?
There's nothing wrong with yellow. He's just misunderstood. He's quite a social colour when you get to know him.
@Xanman: The world has gone 'Twitter'-crazy recently. Everyone is using it. In fact, I've been 'tweeting' regularly throughout this column. In 140 characters or less, tell me (and all the 'twits' that follow me)... what's the point of Twitter?
There is none. I hope I didn't use too many characters.
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