Posted in: Fact or Fiction FACT or FICTION: The CF Retirement Home Edition
By SkittleZ
Dec 12, 2008 - 12:23:33 AM
Welcome back one and all to an all new Fact or Fiction! Hey you gotta give The Candyman his props this time around. I did a damn fine job of snagging and securing some of the best LOP columnists of yesteryear. Three of them left the Main Page earlier this year so... hehe.... hopefully they don't take offense to that last comment. Anyways, I bring to you four well known and established writers (not to mention the artist formerly knows as Takeover). How that last dude managed to schmooze his way in here is anyone's guess. As far as format, this is what we do. I throw out five wrestling-esque statements and it's up to the five selected to decide whether they're 'FACT' or 'FICTION' by giving a thorough explanation. Random was originally supposed to be a part of this spectacle however some rebellious die hard fans vandalized the Monday Night Countdown headquarters so the author of The Nosebleed Section wasn't able to join us here tonight. We send him our best wishes.
The list of disabled veterans reads as such...
Wevv Mang author of Ridin' With The Bossman
Morpheus author of Enter the Dream Realm
Dr. Monkey author of The Eyes of the Monkey
T.O. random poster from the LOP Forums
Pt2 author of take up thy wrestling boots and walk
FACT or FICTION: Stone Cold Steve Austin will compete in his last match at WrestleMania 25 and put over whoever he faces on that night.
(Wevv Mang)FICTION. Stone Cold may show up at WM25. He may even have a match, which I highly doubt will happen. But his last match? I doubt it. And as for putting anyone over, it will have to be against some Stone Cold is actually willing to put over, and even then, he may change his mind between now and then.
(Morpheus) This should be a two-parter, Skitz, and you fucking know it. Anyway, I'm going to go out on a limb since I have absolutely nothing to lose anymore and say this is FICTION. Steve as a lock for the HOF, yes indeed, but another match, I'm not so sure. And even if he DOES have another match, I'm pretty sure he isn't taking the fall. Unless it's against Hogan, and in that case I'd like to see Austin flip the script like he did vs. the NWO all those years ago and just pin him anyway. Fuck Hogan. Fuck him up his stupid, wrinkled, old, orange-skinned skullet monkey ass.
(Dr. Monkey)FICTION. Wrestling is a funny business, it's one of those never say never type of industries. Now I'm not saying Stone Cold won't wrestle at WM and put over his opponent but what I can't say is an absolute fact is that Stone Cold will never wrestle after that. I mean look at guys like Terry Funk and Mick Foley they don't stay retired. Even on the novelty side of things you have guys like Patterson, Briscoe, and the Honky Tonk Man stepping foot in the ring. Even if Stone Cold himself came out and said his last match would be at WrestleMania 25 I still wouldn't put money on it.
(T.O.)FICTION on both counts. WWE doesn’t need him right now (or in April). Their entire roster is healing from its myriad injuries, and their ability to grow a very solid midcard leaves no room or need to put Austin on the card. Look at he upper tier. HHH, Taker, Edge, Orton, Cena, Batista, Jeff Hardy, Big Show sometimes, Jericho sometimes, JBL sometimes. Now that’s stacked. Look at the next level. Matt Hardy, Mark Henry, Rey Mysterio, Finlay, Kofi Kingston, Priceless and Manu. You get it now, right? Austin is not relevant in today’s WWE.
I was one of the bigger Austin fans back in his era. He’s in quite a few of the matches on my favorite matches list. But that’s just it, HIS ERA. Not now. All he’s good for now is a random stunner here and there, on top of shilling WWE merchandise or movies. Look at the last time he interacted with anyone in WWE. He cost Jericho the title. How did that do ANYONE good?
Who exactly benefits from the rub in beating someone who retired 6 years ago? The ONLY anywhere near money feud is with Kennedy, and that’s ONLY if they were to bring up the real life history between these two. That’s highly unlikely. I hereby pass on Austin even appearing at Mania.
(Pt2) Does it matter? Is Austin even relevant anymore? 2001 was almost eight years ago, the last time I checked. I’ll be honest, with the state of Austin’s neck and back, he certainly shouldn’t wrestle again, because I doubt he could give us anything like the standard that should be set for WrestleMania, especially WrestleMania 25. If he does wrestle, then he has to put his opponent over. Hogan did it, Flair did it, Austin has got to do it if they go ahead with it. I’m not sure though, that there will even be a match, so for that I’m going with FICTION.
FACT or FICTION: Edge's current WWE Title reign needs to be a lengthy one to remove the stigma of him being a transitional champion.
(Morpheus)FICTION. I think he lost much of that stigma in his last run. If you want to be scientific about it, every champion is a transitional champion because they are merely holding the belt until someone else takes it from them. I don't think Edge can be classified as a transitional champ anymore simply because they keep going back to him. He's a go-to guy now, not a "hold this while I go get some sodas" guy. Though, to be fair, Sodas Rule. And so does Edge. That is all.
(Dr. Monkey)FICTION. Edge is one of the top heels in the WWE and a multi-time champ holding wins over top faces such as Undertaker, John Cena, Jeff Hardy, Batista, etc. When I think of transitional champion I think of a guy who gets the belt once, twice tops in their career and don't hold on to it past one or two defenses, basically just playing setup guy for the next champ(I.E. Kane). Edge doesn't fall in that category for me, and I think the same could be said for plenty other fans as well.
(T.O.) Screw Edge. Orton is better. I’m still bitter over Orton being made the bitch in the Rated-RKO tandem.
But seriously, you’re on to something here. Edge, despite being a what, 6 time champ)?), still has that bad stigma of being the guy to give the belt to when you don’t want anyone to look real weak. Hi, Undertaker! Look at the major players throughout WWE history. The Undertaker. Triple H. Shawn Michaels. Randy Orton. Stone Cold Steve Austin. Hulk Hogan. Bret Hart. I can keep going to waste valuable LOP bandwidth. What do all of these men have in common? They either won or retained a world title at WrestleMania. Let’s look at the few greats who have NOT done so.
- The Rock. He played the classic foil to Austin’s everyman hero. Someone had to lose to Austin to put him over, and Rock was a powerful enough champion to make an Austin victory MEAN something.
- Kurt Angle. Same deal, sub Brock Lesnar for Austin. Besides, his feuds with Benoit and Lesnar pre-WM 19 cemented him as a solid champion. It was one of my favorite WWE Championship reigns ever, so I’m biased.
- Chris Jericho. He’s the ultimate definition of transitional champion. Ha.
FACT, clearly.
(Pt2) The way I see it, this is Edge’s 6th reign as a World Champion. He has been back to the top of the mountain several times on both brands. However, only one of those reigns has lasted for more than a couple of months. Two of his reigns have been over in the same month that he captured the title. I’d say this is a FACT. While he has been consistently at the top of the card for some time now, if he doesn’t have a significant reign this time around, with only one out of 7 reigns lasting more than 3 months, his legacy will scream ‘transition’, which is a shame for one of the company’s better performers.
(Wevv Mang)FICTION. Edge is a solid champion, and is worthy of being a champion, and therefore, the time period of his reign has little to do with his perception of being a transitional champion. If that perception even exists.
FACT or FICTION: Shawn Michaels is still the biggest clutch performer in the entire WWE.
(Dr. Monkey)FACT. No current performer has had as many big matches as Shawn and nobody is as capable of putting on a good match every time. I honestly can not think of a single HBK match in recent memory that wasn't good, that includes t.v. or ppv. You can't say the same for any other performer on the roster. Case in point HBK wrestled a well past his prime Ric Flair and was able to create a MOTY candidate. That alone is the epitome of a clutch performer.
(T.O.) This depends on what you mean by clutch. In the ring, or selling tickets/PPVs?
Shawn Michaels can, without a doubt, still bring it when needed. Look at his work on RAW in 2004. He single handedly (sorry Trips and Randy) kept the brand afloat (and maybe the whole E – SmackDown! was a cesspool sans Angle and JBL). The same can be said for RAW in 2008. Look at the list of people who left for various reasons. Cena and Orton hurt. Triple H drafted to RAW. You’re losing your ENTIRE RAW Mania main event there. Who filled the void admirably? The guy with chaps and the same music for 15 years, that’s who.
You’ll be hard pressed to find someone who won’t call HBK/Jericho the feud of the year (in WWE at least). Granted, Jericho’s badass heel turn added fuel to the fire on a weekly basis, but come crunch time, who was the man who put it all on the line? Michaels. Who allowed Jericho to ravage him week in, week out, both physically and emotionally? Michaels. You get the point.
Now, Michaels never has been the ultimate ticket seller in WWE. Fans don’t rush to the box office because HBK will be there, they want Cena, HHH, or Taker (why not Orton, marks?). Shawn’s tendency to take a secondary role whenever DX makes an appearance is abundant proof that he’s not the top draw he once thought he was in 1997 (and it was debatable back then, too).
So, if I had to choose, I’m going with FACT. But I can go either way.
(Pt2) Huh, this is an interesting question. There is no doubt that over the past few years Michaels matches have been eagerly anticipated, and have usually, by popular consensus, delivered. But I’m not sure how much of the idea that he is the biggest clutch performer is nostalgia and how much is actually fair. Take a look at his big performances over the past few months; his good work at Survivor Series was mostly with Morrison, a more than competent heel, and his ladder match from No Mercy was against Chris Jericho, who I think is possibly his equal. That’s ignoring some of the other stuff that has gone on recently, the work that HHH and Jeff Hardy have done together to name just one example. I’m saying FICTION, not because I don’t think he is, but because I believe that he is a contender for it, and that the popular consensus unfairly ignores the quality contributions of some others to whom we don’t have the same nostalgic connections; is he the best, or are some others performing at the same level and we only think he is the best because that is what we are used to thinking?
(Wevv Mang)FICTION. Shawn Michaels is a great talent. Best ever? No, I don't think so. He does get the time to develop his matches, and the input to shape them as he sees fit, and bottom line, no one, and I mean no one, sells better than HBK. Hell, he's still got half the net swearing up and down that he's injured, when not that long ago, he did an angle on TV showing what a great actor he is when it comes to injuries. But back to the question at hand, in regards to clutch performers, Edge would be up there, as would Jericho, Batista, depending on his opponent, can have a good match. But in the end, I would say that Edge is the better clutch performer. His opponents are chosen by WWE creative, and that means that their wrestling talent could be hit or miss, and regardless of that, Edge will have to face them and give it his all.
(Morpheus) I almost want to say that that title would be more fitting for the Undertaker, or maybe Triple H, but if you want a solid match that is entertaining, athletic, has a true big match feel and can be something truly memorable, then I would have to say that this is a FACT, and HBK is the way to go. Batista and Cena, sure they have the big match feel, but something memorable? The only reason I remember Cena's matches is because I've seen the same one about 200 times over the last two years. That's not memorable, that's memorization. Shawn is still the Show Stopper though, whether or not his hairline still agrees.
FACT or FICTION: If Christian re-signs with WWE, he would be best suited to wrestle on the SmackDown brand.
(T.O.)FICTION. WWE would be foolish to rush into a feud with Edge, if that was the assumption made here. Why?
Well, assume that they’d try to push Christian as a main event star (just run with it, I know…). What happens when some big-name feud is rushed? Just ask Samoa Joe and Kurt Angle. They never get the proper build, and fizzle out fast. Fans are left disappointed, especially us net nerds. No, if WWE does resign Christian, they need to simmer an alleged feud with Edge. Think of Lesnar/Goldberg, just done a lot freaking better than that was.
Now, if you weren’t gunning for Edge/Christian, just what exactly is the point of putting him on SmackDown!? That show is, to a large extent, the free-TV version of ECW. Less comedy, more wrestling seems like a good fit for Christian at first, but remember that that brand also serves as a breeding ground for future stars, save for the very top tier of H/Taker/Hardy/Edge. Christian is at his best when allowed to exhibit his comedic side, something which loses its luster on a taped show. His brief feud with Cena had the potential to be an instant classic, no pun intended. WWE should try to revisit that feud, or similar ones with Batista, Rey Mysterio, or even CM Punk. The main event roster on RAW could use a fresh face, despite it’s depth. Christian’s heel tendencies are second to only JBL and Chris Jericho on that brand (sorry Randy).
(Pt2) Well, I’d start by keeping him away from RAW, but I’ll get to that in the next question. Once you get that decision out of the way, why would you waste someone with his star power and talent on ECW when you could have him working with Edge, Jeff Hardy, Kennedy, MVP, and Shelton at the top of the Smackdown! card, where ratings and rewards will be much higher and you want your proven performers. He could be one of the top players in the WWE if given the chance this time around, but he isn’t going to get a look in on RAW, and ECW is just a waste. FACT.
(Wevv Mang)FACT. I think he'll have a better chance with some distance between himself and Vince. He could work with Edge, at least for starters, but I think there are plenty of talents on Smackdown that he could work with as well.
(Morpheus) Well, if he heads back to SD, he'll be with Edge. This could be very cool for us viewers, but likely not as cool for Christian's career. Add to that the fact that Jeff Hardy, Triple H, and the Undertaker are all over on this side of the lake, and it looks pretty deep from where I stand. On RAW, he'd have to compete with Batista, Cena, Jericho, and Orton, but I think he would be able to break out a bit more there, and also not be stuck with the Edge Factor around his neck either. I'm going to have to go with FICTION on this one, with the added caveat that if he ends up on ECW, I'm going to organize a massive march on Titan Towers for a Shit In, where we will all drop trot in the lobby and drop a deuce or two before we become the victims of police brutality.
(Dr. Monkey)FACT. I love Christian but the way RAW is stacked I just don't see any way he could float any higher than midcard. With the climate on Smackdown and his past with both Edge and Jeff Hardy I think he would have a much better chance. Given I still think he'll ultimately fall back to midcarder, I believe he'll last longer on the blue brand before falling.
FACT or FICTION: With the stacked roster on RAW and after two serious surgeries, John Cena will be booked more realistically from here on forward.
(Pt2) With him beating Jericho at Survivor Series, I’m not entirely certain. But it makes sense. RAW is stacked beyond measure. Batista, Jericho, Punk, JBL, Kane, Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio and Shawn Michaels are all former world champions, and they’ll all need their day in the sun. Cena isn’t Hogan, he’s a babyface that only 55% of the crowd were behind at his peak. Booked realistically his charisma may mean he proves to be more of an asset than he ever was, turning some of those boos into cheers and giving him a greater fan base. I’m not overly confident, but I’ll say FACT, more in hope than expectation.
(Wevv Mang)FICTION. Define realistic.
Dude came back in record time from major injuries. That in itself is not realistic.
If you mean a slower pace of wrestling, well yeah, that's going to be happening all over the place, not just in the case of John Cena. Hell, that's been the mandate for years in WWE.
One thing is for sure, whatever style of wrestling WE encourages Cena to follow, it will in no way, shape, or form, mean less television time for Cena.
(Morpheus)FICTION, and fuck you for asking. I'm pretty sure that Cena could rape a baby with downs syndrome on Stephanie McMahon's personal baby changing station and it would not dissuade the WWE officials from booking this hack like Superman.
Superman with a propensity for groin injuries, that is. Bag. Of. Douche.
(Dr. Monkey)FICTION. I say fiction for different reasons than most would expect. I assume the realistic aspect is in reference to his superman like run in 07. Well his year has been a pretty tame year in comparison with him losing at both WrestleMania and SummerSlam. He even put over JBL at the Great American Bash. I say FICTION though because I don't think this has much to do with injuries or a stacked roster it's just a standard booking decision.
Last year they tried out Cena with a long title reign, the longest for a face in quite some time. However Cena's mixed reactions started leaning more towards boo's in some venues and it seems the booking of his character has relaxed a little this year to ease up on the overkill some were feeling. Nothing roster or injury related.
(T.O.) Roster stacked, eh? Move this fragile bum to ECW, stat. What a grand FACT.
But seriously, they’ve already been doing this since his January return. The only times he looked dominant were in the Rumble and in his feud with JBL, and he didn’t even win the final match of that feud. He lost all the shots he had at the WWE Title (both of them to Orton, albeit one by DQ, and against Trips). He looked downright human at Backlash and One Night Stand. He was humbled at SummerSlam. He’s looked NOTHING like the John Cena of late 2006-2007. A large part of me rejoices. Hawaii, hello, indeed!
Then again, look at this most recent return. Granted it’s against Jericho, who has NEVER been portrayed as a strong challenger or champion, but he’s begun to revert to his superman roots since Survivor Series. That’s going to burn people out again real soon. WWE needs to rein him in after this feud, no matter where they go. A beatable Cena is much more entertaining. I think it was CharlieMac who proposed the idea of Cena going on something resembling a losing streak and having him doubt himself perhaps, or wonder what’s made him lose so much lately. This is money, regardless of how you slice it. Sorry MVP, you’re not big enough yet for it to mean anything. Win a few world titles then get back to me. A desperate Cena who goes all out to try to get the elusive big match victory (he can still win on RAW, don’t want to lose all the luster) is much more compelling than someone who wins all the time despite being the so-called underdog.
Time to pack it up and get the hell out of here, homies. Yes these has-beens need to take off but there's still hope ladies and gentleman. After a rough up and down year, the CF is trying to rebuild and it looks to be on the right track. Writers have been coming and going at a frantic pace for months now but things appear to be slowing down and is that stability I see on the horizon? Holy shit.... we might survive this columnist recession period after all! That was no typo, folks. Go check out the LOP Columns Forum and see what I'm getting on about. Or if you're feeling a little lazy, why not drop any of these five some fruity feedback? I mean it is the cool thing to do these days but I'm just repeating what they're saying on the streets. Give it three to five weeks and we'll be back once more on the Main Page with new topics and new contributors. Take it easy and have a Merry Christmas.
Click Here to Email WevvMang (Kane don't live here no more)
Click Here to Email Morpheus (Don't enter the dream realm without your trusty dreamcatcher)
Click Here to Email Dr. Monkey (This simian fellow likes to let it all hang out)
Click Here to Email T.O. (Chief representative of the Randy Orton fan club)
Click Here to Email Pt2 (Likes to walk around bare footed obviously)
