Posted in: Fact or Fiction FACT or FICTION: Santino Owns, Hogan/Austin And More!
By SkittleZ
Mar 11, 2009 - 8:37:25 PM
Welcome peeps to the latest (and possibly greatest) installment of the column you all know and love - Fact or Fiction! We're coming at you this month with an elite group of writers from LOP's Columns Forum. See these are no ordinary columnists. From the very beginning, I hand picked them all (ala Orton with The Legacy) to be in one kick ass stable known as H.O.C. Alright so one of them were added in later on but you get the point! These five are the most talented writers to hit LOP in a while and they've all made their presence felt over the last few months. You should know the rules by now but I'll breeze by them real quick for those few not caught up to speed on everything. I kidnapped five individuals and forced them to answer five wrestling related questions. They'll have to answer 'FACT' or 'FICTION' in orderly fashion or I'll rape all five in succession. Now that the business end of things are taken care of, lets have some fun!
The handful held hostage are...
Søren author of Some Strangeness in the Proportion
FACT or FICTION: Given how damn entertaining he is, Santino needs to be on the WM25 card (shitty backstage segments don't count either).
(Søren) FACT. Oh wait, I just read the part about "shitty backstage segments don't count," so that makes this a FICTION. Santino might be great when his groin is getting de-groined, or when he mispronounces Intercontinental, but the truth of it is, this man should not be inside a wrestling ring, especially not on the biggest night of the year. If they had transitioned Santino into a credible, psycho heel the way I had expected them to for Cyber Sunday (remember how unbalanced he looked with the Goldust make-up on and the blood pouring from his mouth?), then yes. But I'd rather have the ten minutes it takes for him to put over, say, Maria, be used toward (gasp) an Intercontinental or US title defense.
Or a Diva dance-off. One or the other.
(Skaos) Personally I would have to say FICTION. True, Santino is decent humour for WWE, but he hasn't had enough exposure recently to warrant a WrestleMania appearance. The best I expect from him is a side show with Beth Phoenix during some kind of Women's Championship match. And to think he deserved a spot in the MITB ladder match is ridiculous. He doesn't possess the wrestling ability to make that match what it could be this year.
(BeyondKnight)FICTION. Santino has really become a new age Eugene. The gimmick is wearing thin, and unless he is able to become more than just jobber fodder in the ring, he doesn't deserve a place on the WM card. The only conceivable premise I could see playing out is Beth Phoenix finally tiring of his antics and kicking the crap out of him herself.
(Mazza) Well this is definitely a tough one to start out with. I like most wrestling fans have loved the way Santino has turned his career false start around with his mic work. He has been one of the most entertaining parts of Raw for 2008 but I am thinking he is starting to get stale as back up to a diva. So given where he is at this moment I will say FICTION. I can see him doing commentary or having a small role to play in a divas match but to be honest, I don’t think he should be allowed to steal the limelight. I have to say that until Mr. Marella starts to head in a new direction, his sub par wrestling skills and diva management has no place on the biggest event of the year, no matter how funny he is.
(Ry P) Ehhh FICTION. Santino is profusely entertaining and I definitely think the WWE have dropped the ball by not allowing him to develop his in-ring abilities – However - this close to the big show, it would be nonsensical to give him a rare spot on the WrestleMania 25 card. I’m sure he will excel in his role of comedic fodder in the women’s battle royal, however.
FACT or FICTION: Austin/Hogan stands a better chance of happening than Kane winning the MITB ladder match this year.
(Skaos)FICTION. I think that Hogan is more likely to focus on Jericho or Cena this year. If Cena is not inserted into the World Heavyweight Championship match this year, I doubt that Cena v Hogan is something that WWE could resist. They won't have a bigger or more respectable event in which to put this match on. Also, if Austin fights Hogan, the problem is it leaves Jericho out of a legend (one that is still active and in shape) to fight. After his excellent promos on Raw recently, they cannot insert a let down here.
(BeyondKnight)FICTION. The problem with MITB is that is has become a hotshot for the main event scene. Out of all the announced participants, Kane is the most likely to be able to pull off a high profile match with a main eventer. Kane cashing in Money in the Bank at Judgment Day, or No Mercy is a match that writes itself. Besides Nation, anything mathematically stands a better chance of happening than Austin / Hogan does.
(Mazza) I am not even sure there is a correct answer to this question. Chris Jericho’s involvement with the legends at the current time is surely heading towards a WrestleMania match-up with either Hogan or Austin so to have these two finally go one-on-one would take a big swerve in storyline by the WWE. That said, it seems that throwing the fans curve balls is definitely flavor of the month in Stamford recently. I would say that the match is highly unlikely but not a 100% impossibility. Kane’s odds of winning any match are usually not that great but I really do not think there is a clear favorite for the MITB this year. If he is looking to retire soon as the rumors have indicated, I think a last run as a transitional champion as a result of cashing in the MITB is far from out of the question. An added bonus for him is that he has to have more chance of winning it than Mark Henry. Come WrestleMania, it is likely that the Big Red Machine will enhance the match with his strength and help put over the eventual winner (who I hope is not Rey Mysterio) but I still think he has a better chance of winning at WrestleMania 25 than us seeing two prime candidates for knee replacement surgery go at it. FICTION.
(Ry P)FICTION. Kane actually has a much higher chance of winning the MITB briefcase than Austin does of working his farewell match against Hulk Hogan. Neither are likely to happen, but one is semi-feasible and one is just out of the question entirely. McMahon has done a good job of keeping his Mania secrets on lock-down from internet roaming assholes like us, and you have to believe there are some shockers in store for us – Austin/Jericho? Possible. Hogan/Jericho? Even more possible. Austin/Hogan? Impossible. On top of the fact that these two have never, ever been able to work together (check out Pt. 2 of “The Top Ten Greatest Matches That Never Happened” for a full documentation), the card is almost finalized and there have been no seeds planted what-so-ever. If the biggest match of the century was a month away from taking place you’d think they would have dropped us some inkling of a clue by now.
(Søren)FICTION. We all know that the man we know as Kane won't be active in the ring much longer. He's had a long career in which he's put up with a lot of crap; he's performed admirably; and, on several occasions, it almost seemed like they were going to use him to his full potential.
But then they didn't.
That being said, I think they might be preparing Kane for a short run with the title as a sort of Lifetime Achievement Award, much like they did for Chris Benoit and Mick Foley (Mick's words, not mine), and the Money in the Bank briefcase is the perfect way for him to be put over while at the same time not damaging the credibility of the champion he beats -- who will then go on to beat Kane cleanly and look even better as a result, which has always been Kane's purpose as a character: to make other people look good.
Plus, does anyone really want to see Austin and Hogan wrestle? I'd rather they have a beer drinking contest.
FACT or FICTION: The current Hardy brother feud will finally propel Matt into the main event scene.
(BeyondKnight)FICTION. Matt Hardy is not main event material. This feud is basically the last hurrah of Matt Hardy in the spotlight. Anyone with any brains knows that Jeff Hardy will have another title reign (maybe even before the show ends in Houston!) but where does Matt go after here? Back to the mid-card where he belongs… Look at it this way, there isn't another face in the company that Matt Hardy makes a realistic main event challenge for After Mania, Jeff goes back to the main event, and Matt probably goes back to headlining ECW.
(Mazza) My view on this feud is simple, one Hardy will bring the other Hardy to his level. I am betting that the jury is still out on Jeff with the powers that be in the WWE. I was not entirely enthusiastic about his brief run as WWE Champion and his promo weaknesses are still there for all to see. Matt’s heel turn has also failed to impress me so far and I think there is one thing, and one thing alone that can save this feud. They simply need to steal the show in Houston. I believe that they are more than capable of doing this if their match has some kind of hardcore stipulation. Let them play to their strengths by wowing the crowd with high risk moves and big spots. If done properly I believe that Matt could conceivably be bought up to the main event but I just have the feeling that WWE management will not give them all the tools they need to do this to the best of their abilities and as a result, Jeff will soon be floundering around the upper mid card again in the near future, so FICTION.
(Ry P) This is one fat, heaping hunk of FICTION. Besides the initial shock value that goes along with burning your own fucking brother’s house down, Matt has absolutely no future as a heel. He’s not Chris Jericho; his new found jealous, malicious, remorseless characteristics are coming across as forced and borderline corny. With the title scene as congested as it’s ever been, who is he going to work with once this program finishes up? Can he get real heat outside of this obvious blood-feud? WWE really botched this one, and unless both Hardy brothers get personality transplants this will not only not elevate Matt to the main event but de-elevate Jeff from it.
(Søren)FICTION. I hate to be the voice of reason here, but here is the truth: Matt Hardy, as a main event commodity, would be redundant. In fact, as anything other than an upper-card enhancement talent, Matt Hardy is obsolete. For years both he and Edge have existed solely off of their respective heats for the Matt/Edge/Lita love triangle, and now that he's turned heel he has effectively gotten rid of the only reason why anyone cared about him. Couple that with the fact that Jeff has improved in technical wrestling while Matt has not improved in incitement, and it's easy to see that Matt will always be the Kane to Jeff's Undertaker.
There may be room for two brothers in an organization, but not at the top.
(Skaos)FICTION. Matt, in my opinion, just doesn't have the ability to rival his brother. In fact, if Matt and Jeff were not related, I doubt Matt would even be featuring in a match of this magnitude this year. Jeff has his critics, but the fact remains that he has an unusual, yet unorthodox moveset that stands out from the crowd. He has also improved on his promos of late and deserves his main event slot. Matt has produced some decent matches on ECW of late, but he seems out of his depth on both Raw and Smackdown. I don't think a spot in the main event away from ECW is the best place for him.
FACT or FICTION: The WWE has done enough storyline-wise to interest fans in yet another Triple H/Randy Orton program.
(Mazza)FACT FACT FACT! This has easily been the most interesting feud on WWE programming since Michaels versus Jericho ended and I honestly believe that Randy and Hunter can top the 2008 feud of the year. The thing for me is that these two never really clicked together in a feud before as they are both much better playing the heel. The personal issue allows Triple H to revert to the sledgehammer wielding man on a mission without needing a heel turn. The potential for swerves and other superstars to get involved in the feud is limitless and I can easily see the issue between the two men running for much of the year without a drop in quality whilst maintaining a fresh feeling to the feud.
(Ry P) This is a really tough one. Initially, I was appalled that a Triple H/Orton match would headline WrestleMania – this match has happened dozens of time already; there’s not a strong “champion/challenger” dynamic as Trips has barely had the title a month and Orton has barely acknowledged his Rumble win; and more importantly, it will be the third WrestleMania main event in a row that doesn’t put over any new talent.
It’s been tough to sustain this opinion over the last couple weeks, however, as both men have really gone the extra mile to make this “damsel in distress” angle WrestleMania-worthy. The promo where Trips manipulated Orton into challenging him was nothing short of brilliant, and, as much as it pains me to admit it, I really hope The Game does break Orton’s neck. It’s working for me.
Working, but for how long? WrestleMania is still a month away and already we’ve seen a violent gang beat-down and two ridiculous backstage sledgehammer chases. The “can’t touch each other” stipulation has obviously gone to shit and I can’t help but think that, like every past angle between these two, this ones going to lose my interest before it climaxes. I also can’t stand that it’s a “given” that Triple H gets to headline Mania despite the fact that he is neither the best overall performer nor the biggest draw – so this one is unfortunately FICTION.
(Søren)FACT. While I personally have no interest in any Triple H match, and while it saddens me to think of the odds of Triple H retaining at Mania, I think the casual fan (or do I mean, casual bit of Universe?) will find themselves strangely emotionally invested in this match. Add that to the fact that there are already so many separate Triple H marks these days and I think this is a given. Personally, I just look forward to this feud being over.
(Skaos)FACT. When the rumours of Triple H v Orton were circulated for Mania I rubbed my forehead and prescribed myself some Xanax. Who wants to see Triple H v Orton again? Well, I didn't. However, when Orton RKO'd Stephanie, the feud took on a whole new level of awesome. First if, it is more personal. Triple H wanting to avenge his family is pure and simple. It also breaks the kayfabe that has bugged many fans for years. The best reason for this though, is the fact that Orton is basically, at some point, going to recruit one of the McMahons to his legacy group. With Stephanie being the youngest and most connected to his opponent, I highly expect this to happen. With three solid segments on Raw in as many weeks, this feud is definitely enough fuel to last until Mania and beyond.
(BeyondKnight)FACT. Putting Orton as the 1 challenger for WM puts him in a position where he has something to prove. Who better to try and cement his legacy against than the man that has ended every single World Title reign he has ever had? The Orton / Triple H rivalry has been such a dominant part of WWE programming over the past 5 years that it seems only fitting to have the epic final encounter at WrestleMania 25. I know there are groups of Heretics out there that can't stand the idea of seeing another Fred demolition at the hands of Triple H, and to those you, I say the following… Ha Ha! No one will ever dethrone the King of Kings, get used to it. Sorry Fred-heads.
FACT or FICTION: If Batista had avoided injury, he'd be facing John Cena at WrestleMania 25 for the World Heavyweight Championship.
(Ry P)FACT and it would have sucked big dick.
(Søren) As awesome as that sounds, I'm going to say FICTION. I don't think Face versus Face would play that well at Mania, and I think WWE realizes that they need to have Edge be in the main event to help his credibility as a legitimate heel champion. Up until this point, Edge has won almost every match in the past four years off of some kind of dirty trick, and it's getting to the point where it simply isn't believable that he can go over someone clean. I think this is the time to prove that he can still win without cheating -- but really I'm just rambling because I don't care about Edge, Cena, or Batista at all.
(Skaos)FACT. This match had to happen. Batista and John Cena part deux was the best all round match for this championship. It would have paid big bucks. Obviously we know this didn't happen. However, I think with Batista injured, the card has worked out better. This way, Cena v Batista can be used next year. This year is for HBK v Taker and Orton v Triple H again. Batista could, however, slot into the Triple H/Orton feud mentioned above.
(BeyondKnight) Are you kidding me? FICTION! Batista could be much better utilized in an Evolution 3 way showdown for the WWE Title (with Ric Flair as a special guest ref). Nation, John Cena vs Batista wasn't very good the first time around… and I can't see Vince making the same mistake on a larger scale. The only way a Cena/Bats program would be of use is if they returned Bats to a full blown uber-heel and used him to further John's Cena role as the most over face of the company. In all honesty, this is the 2nd WrestleMania Batista has had to sit out, and I don't think anyone really misses him. When Cena or Fred went down with injuries, there was a noticeable vacuum on Raw. Batista… not so much.
(Mazza) Well the road to WrestleMania is always full of twists and turns but I have to think that this is definitely a FACT. Cena versus Batista II seemed a certainty before the Animal’s injury but the way the WrestleMania card is shaping up, I think it is a blessing in disguise. If this match up did happen it would be interesting to see where the rest of the card would have gone. I think that it is Randy Orton who has gained the most from the Batista injury and a with a fit Animal, we may have been looking at Cena versus Batista and Triple H versus Edge for the main titles with Orton in the role currently being played by Chris Jericho.
Retro FACT or FICTION: The HBK/Hart ironman match from WrestleMania 12 is the greatest main event in WM history.
(Søren)FACT. Some will argue that Hogan/Andre deserves this accolade, but, as monumental as that match at WrestleMania III was, and as many times as we will see that footage rolled again and again, when we think WRESTLING at WrestleMania, there's really only one match which comes to mind: The Iron Man match. Not only were both performers great at telling a story inside the ring, but the stories surrounding the match and the actual finish make this hour-long epic something to remember. When I watch that footage I still get riled up over Gorilla Monsoon's decision to continue the match, and I always somehow hope that Bret will pull out the win -- but he never does.
(Skaos) Being a total HBK mark, this question has set me at a quandary. First of, this is the match that showed me what a true wrestling match is. It had everything. It had technical ability, pace, high flying, spots, power and story telling. It also lasted an HOUR and then went into overtime and held my attention for the full period. It showed massive gumption, outstanding athleticism and most of all, it was THE match that made me become a wrestler.
It is hard to think of a ME in Mania history that even rivals this. Sure, Austin v HBK was awesome, Taker v Edge from last year was phenomenal, Bret v Austin was classic too. But for a match to hold attention for an entire hour (and not many matches since to pass this time frame) and THEN produce such a shocking ending and propel the best all round wrestler in decades to the top...I think my answer would be FACT.
This is not from a HBK mark point of view, it is from a true wrestling fan point of view. Bret deserves kudos for this match too. It was amazing.
(BeyondKnight) It was a good match, but the greatest in WrestleMania history? I'm going to have to call this one FICTION. Personally, I always thought that the "New Generation" was a low point in WWE history, and the Hart/HBK feud has been artificially inflated in retrospect due to the real-life personal problems the two developed further down the line. Nation, my vote is Rock / Austin at WM17. While the ironman match might be more of a quote unquote "technical clinic", I think Austin / Rock was much more entertaining.
(Mazza)FICTION. My personal opinion on this is that it is one of the most over-rated matches in history. For me, this match does not even make the top 5 main events at a WrestleMania. I found it to be very boring and tedious and as much respect as I have for Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels, I really struggle to watch this match through start to finish. As a spectacle Hulk Hogan versus Andre the Giant, Macho Man Randy Savage and The Ultimate Warrior were all much bigger for me. If you want to talk about match quality I think that the ironman match is easily topped by Kurt Angle versus Brock Lesnar and Triple H versus Shawn Michaels versus Chris Benoit at WrestleMania's 19 and 20 respectively. I may spread a little more light on this issue for the Lords of Pain readers very soon.
(Ry P) There have been many, many classic encounters at WrestleMania. Savage VS Steamboat, Hart VS Piper, Undertaker VS Kane and Jericho VS Michaels stick out as a few of my favorites. But, as hard as I try, I cannot seem to find a match that mirrors the eloquence of what took place at WrestleMania 12 – and if you can, please rip me a copy of this magical, mythical match that never happened as I’d love to see it. FACT
Time to close this chapter in the F or F chronicles I'm afraid. The fun has to end at some time or another. Did you enjoy the nonsense that took place throughout this column? Because we ain't no one trick pony I assure you! H.O.C. has made a living doing this gig and the evidence is in LOP's Columns Forum. I swear it's not a porn site or unfriendly spam either. I would promise or guarantee it but that goes against everything in The Bible. But yeah... check out that link because the CF hasn't been this stacked in quite some time. Even the latest hoard of n00bs aren't too terrible. If you'd rather not, then at least have the fucking decency to leave these gentlemen some feedback for their hard work! Or send them viruses. Whatever helps you sleep better.
